Holder MUST Act, Regardless of the Costs

by: Reaper0bot0

Sat Jul 11, 2009 at 20:16:04 PM EDT


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This is all too easy for me to write.  

I've spent the last eight months trying very hard to agree with then-President-Elect Obama- that we should look forward, not behind us, on the issue(s) of what the Bush Administration did to make us safe. I sympathize with President Obama on this one. There is so much work for us to do on policy! Health care, climate change, credit card reform- and God knows what else is on that list!

Moreover, I agree with the basic premise that the Bush administration, by and large, did what they did in the honest belief that they were doing what (they thought) was necessary to save American lives (and perhaps atone for their monumental fuckup). Well, I give up. I can't get behind this, even though I cannot condemn President Obama for his impulses on this one.

Attorney General Eric Holder must act, regardless of the costs. If Vice President Cheney ordered the CIA, as has been recently reported, to NOT brief Congress on matters that the CIA is required by law to so brief Congress, well, that's it. Holder MUST act in order for us to keep this republic our founders gave us.

Reaper0bot0 :: Holder MUST Act, Regardless of the Costs
Much of American history is defined by the executive branch's ever-growing hoard of power.  War, strife, and discord demand a strong and rapid central response.  The executive branch is the one most able to mount such a response in dire times.  I understand the tendency for power to accumulate in on branch to the detriment of the other two.  However, the executive branch rarely cedes any power back, and as far as I know it has never returned all that it took in a time of crisis.

Health care reform matters more than I can say.  Climate change legislation is even more urgent.  Serious investigations of the Bush administration WILL delay, derail, and possibly destroy our hopes on those issues and so many others.  There will be real and tangible costs in blood and treasure if Holder acts.  This is no small distraction.  The Congress and the press will expend an incredible amount of effort and concentration on the misdeeds of President Bush, Vice President Cheney, and lord only knows how many others.  We won't get much else done for awhile.  Depending on how this plays out it could even cost us in 2010.  We cannot know the costs of this going into it, other than to say that they will be felt for the rest of our lives.  We will be diminished, noticeably so.

The costs of inaction are greater, though.  We may lose thousands, indeed millions of people to diseases we could have otherwise treated.  We may lose thousands, indeed millions, to rising oceans if we do not act soon.  These are both tragic possibilities if we do not seize the moment.  However, neither of them will end the human existence.  Neither will the death of our republic.  However, the death of our system of governance will set us back more than either other.  A healthy democracy is able to adapt, harnessing human potential and talent in a beautiful and destructive synthesis.  Tyranny extinguishes the light that we need to see what is ahead, and how to plot our course.

President Obama is making the wrong choice for perhaps the right reasons.  He has curbed most of the excesses of his predecessor, as any thinking person would have expected.  However, he has not relinquished all (or even perhaps most) of the powers his predecessor claimed.  Using these powers sparingly and with the best of intent is an improvement, yes, but ultimately it sets us up for the greatest of tyrannies.  President Obama is creating a tragic precedent - torture, warrantless-wiretapping, and other flagrant violations of our Constitution are no more than political disagreements.  Some choose not to commit these sins, but none rise to the occasion to end them.

Attorney General Eric Holder MUST act, regardless of the costs!  The more we learn, the more obvious it becomes to me (at least) that President Obama is telling future generations that torture was a bad thing that he would stop but not punish.  What happens when another president faces an impossible situation and sees a bloody shortcut to actionable intelligence?  He will know that his successor may end these excesses but that there simply is no precedent for holding him any more accountable than what the democratic process already guarantees - repudiation at the ballot box.

The attorney general must serve the law!  Our Constitution is a trap, created by men to use human nature against itself such that liberty would survive the worst they could foresee.  Three competing branches, co-equals, each able to curb the excesses of the other, working both together and against one another to the ultimate betterment of all.  The system is failing.  We cannot count on every president that is to come being a person of character and restraint.  Eric Holder MUST act because if he does not we will do this again.

And again...

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Tips? (2.00 / 3)
For justice and truth?

This has been my position all along. (2.00 / 5)
And for the very same reasons you state in the diary. The thing is that it doesn't have to derail the most important initiatives. Action on climate change will be passed before the end of the year. The same holds true for health care. Accountability, truth commission, whatever, won't come to a head for at least 10-12 months. Let Holder begin an investigation. Don't act on that investigation until after health care has been passed and signed.

It will have an effect on the mid-term election, but who knows whether it will be pro or con? It really all depends on what comes out in the investigation. If it goes like I think it will then the public will turn against the past administration in droves. I didn't really notice the Clinton investigation hurting the GOP all that much. In fact, the GOP used that to push their stance as the 'moral values' party. The Dems could do something similar by pushing themselves as the defenders of the Constitution and legal limits on gov't.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis


There is a risk (2.00 / 4)
That the public will support what was done when it all comes out.  That doesn't mean we don't do it, it just means we need to be prepared to pay that price if it comes to that.

[ Parent ]
Not for nothing (2.00 / 4)
but I can see the public rallying behind the former administration on issues like wiretapping and torture...but if the public rallies behind them on the issue of lying to Congress, then I give up.  

[ Parent ]
There are always people like the one who left this comment (2.00 / 3)
on the NY Times web site for the article about this subject.

surprised .... who cares !! the average American and the very average unintelligent Congress has no business dictating any opinions or thoughts towards the CIA... let them do their job .... we don't need to know how or what they do to keep us safe and keep us as a world power... people stop being so scared your civil liberties are being tampered with ...we all really do have bigger and scarier problems in the country !!

This attitude is surprisingly widespread. I disagree with it completely. There is no more important issue than protecting our civil liberties. If we give those up we might as well have been conquered by another country. Only difference would be different rulers/tyrants.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis


[ Parent ]
If the American people don't care about their civil liberities (2.00 / 5)
the government won't either...yeah, I hear it all the time too...ever since I've been back in New York I still hear it;

"I voted for Obama, but I'm upset to hear he caved to the liberals and stopped torturing these madmen...they deserve it"

and so on.

This is interesting;

keep us as a world power

Is it really important that we stay a world power?...yes...Americans like their empire.  


[ Parent ]
I'd guess those are people that realize our lifestyle (2.00 / 2)
is dependent on being an empire.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis


[ Parent ]
Is there a relevant moral question there? (2.00 / 1)
 My lifestyle is dependant on us being an empire, so I'm OK with everything that goes with it, good and bad.

[ Parent ]
Makes perfect sense. (2.00 / 3)
God obviously favors us or he wouldn't have allowed us to get so powerful and rich. Therefore, anything we do to protect that empire is part of doing God's work. Simple really.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis


[ Parent ]
A ridiculus number of people (2.00 / 3)
believe what you just said.  

[ Parent ]
Although we are slipping in God's estimation by (2.00 / 2)
our government's (in)actions on abortion rights, gay marriage, the national prayer day thingy, teen abstinance, etc.

We also elected a Muslim, facsist, communist, socialist, Kenyan-born Anti-Christ.  Hell in a handbasket, I tell ya.

Hey, Brett, piss or get off the pot.  Really.


[ Parent ]
I agree with you more than I can say, although I'll add one more (2.00 / 1)
"condition" to the mix:  the economy.

Obama was elected because he was seen as being better able to fix the economy, get Americans healthcare "equal to what members of Congress have", and doing something about climate change.  Once he is successful with those things he can really push other stuff.  That's why I'm willing to give him time on DADT, DOMA, EFCA, and prosecutions.  Although, I do believe he would prefer to look forward largely because he doesn't want the distraction of an investigation.  IMHO, he'd rather be known for healtchare reform and climate change legislation than for prosecuting the previous administration.

There are timing issues, as well.  There was a woman (Elizabeth de la Vega, I believe) who advocated waiting to appoint a special prosecutor because the public well of information would dry up.  The more information that people get, the more they will want something to be done.  Of course, there will always be a group of people who think the government can do no wrong; these are the same folks who applaud Palin for quitting.  The more Cheney is put as the face of what went wrong with the administration the more it helps the pro-prosecution cause.  Although he has seen a slight rise in his popularity he's still hugely unpopular (and creepy).

There's also nothing that says Holder isn't gathering information.  Investigating/prosecuting a former president isn't something that should be done quickly or taken lightly.  I'm often amused that people are "surprised" Bush/Cheney et al aren't in jail now.  I read somewhere that someone else read somewhere else(!) that it takes 10-12 months to get a handle on the personnel and workings of the various governmental bureaucracies.  We know the Bush burrowed a number of people in various agencies so who knows who can be trusted at Justice or in the FBI or CIA.  Panetta just found out in June about some secret program.  Who knows what else he doesn't know.

It's going to take time to make sense of all of this mess.  If prosecutions are going to happen they need to be done right and be seen as a search for truth not a political witch hunt.  We also need to be prepared for any fall-out, although I'm tempted to believe that, depending on how many Democrats may get caught up in this, we will be in a stronger position.

The End

Hey, Brett, piss or get off the pot.  Really.


[ Parent ]
There is a good case against appointing a Special Prosecutor (2.00 / 3)
at least against appointing one a few months ago, in that it would have appeared to be a partisan attack on the outgoing administration.

Waiting a bit, and letting evidence pile up, as well as rooting out the potential leaks--as well as identifying those who would hamper an investigation as was done with Iran-Contra--a slower approach, and one where Congress and public outcry are pulling the Administration to bow to the will of people is the smarter play. It looks much less like a witch hunt.

Cheney made a bold play to try to push a schedule for the President, and I think hoped to either earn an investigation that popped too early--giving him time to get his briefs filed and his people ready at the shredders before they got shuffled out of circulation, or he was hoping that there would be the double think that would still allow his people to quietly disappear evidence.

I don't doubt for a moment, that there was a heavy amount of CYOA involved, and I suspect that goes all down the line. What may bite Cheney in the touchis, is that he may have a few folks in the chain that were bright enough to keep enough evidence, just in case that there was a move to hang folks down the line. It's impossible to underestimate the effect that throwing staffers to the wolves over the years has had on internal security in such a bureaucratic tangle.  


[ Parent ]
A front page story on my local papger this morning (0.00 / 0)
was a story from AP.  It begins with...

Six months into Barack Obama's presidency, his Democratic allies are pushing for twin investigations into Bush-era torture and anti-terrorism policies.

thus defining any investigation as partisan.  It continues...

A move to appoint a criminal prosecutor [as Newsweek reports Holder is considering] is certain to stir partisan bickering that could prove a distraction to Obama's efforts to push ambitious health care and energy reform.

Yep.  And, as you point out, who knows who kept what information if only to cover his/her ass.  Or, if Cheney was as unpopular inside government as he was outside, someone might have held information for just the right moment.

Hey, Brett, piss or get off the pot.  Really.


[ Parent ]
The irony in this (2.00 / 4)
is that this is news media basically foreshadowing how they plan on reporting it;

A move to appoint a criminal prosecutor [as Newsweek reports Holder is considering] is certain to stir partisan bickering that could prove a distraction to Obama's efforts to push ambitious health care and energy reform.

Another words, "we'll be sure it does"

Somewhere there is a Monday morning meeting at a national news organization where producers and/or editors are sitting around trying to figure out how to fit this into a "Obana breaks bipartisanship promise" headline...because that will make them money.  


[ Parent ]
I've worked for (2.00 / 2)
the NY Daily News, PBS and ABC and I assure you, you are 100% correct.


[ Parent ]
I don't think the majority of of Americans care. (0.00 / 0)
Every Republican administration since Nixon has lied to congress and used the intelligence service illegaly.Only a few have paid a price for it.

 If Holder investigates and finds somthing more than what he has now, the public might support prosecutions. If all he has are proposed assasination squads, forget about it. Most Americans would support that. Some will say that this is about justice and the truth not politics. While I agree in principle, because of who this involves it can't help but be political.


they don't want to know (2.00 / 2)
I think it's less that Americans don't care than that they simply don't want to know.  Americans elected Bush, twice.  We're responsible for his actions.  Any investigation that points the finger at Bush et al also points the finger at the millions who voted for him. And American voters can stomach being lied to, being condescended to, being fooled again and again--but they can't stomach taking responsibility for their votes.

Part of me would delight in pointing that finger.  "See what you did, soccer moms?  See who you put in power, independents who broke red in 2004?  See how right we were?"  But another part of me knows that the one cardinal rule of politics is that you can't blame the electorate, implicitly or explicitly.
Even when it's to blame.

Now, if Holder or Congress or whomever can come across a smoking gun of brazen illegality--and not what you or I think is brazen illegality but which the public will view as Watergate-esque, and it's a high barrier--then I'm for it.  Fishing expeditions, though . . . not so much.

Also, hi Reaper, nice diary.

"It's always worth re-assessing the shibboleths." -- Brit


[ Parent ]
Heya Koan, thanks (2.00 / 2)
Life gets in the way of blogging.  I wasn't working, just in school, in the run-up to the election.  What down time I have I tend to spend with my fiancee, or cycling.  Also, with Obama in office, I'm just not that angry.  This worries me.  I may not be alone.  We may lose our edge as our colleagues across the aisle get theirs back.

[ Parent ]
That there's the thing. (2.00 / 1)
Before Nov 4 the left had all sorts of things to be worked up about and the right was mostly resigned or despondent.  Now, whether you agree with their heat or not, the right has a lot of reasons to be worked up (trillions of reasons) and are not surprisingly adamant about saying so.  

The 9/12 group I joined doesn't sound on average a whole lot different than some of the more extreme voices from the Obama groups of last year, and there are even some reasonable voices that moderate the mix.  I joined mostly out of morbid interest but I've added a few comments of my own to the conversation which have been received surprisingly well.  

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon


[ Parent ]
That's because you are a weirdo that fits right in with the Beckites. (2.00 / 2)
I joined mostly out of morbid interest but I've added a few comments of my own to the conversation which have been received surprisingly well.

;~)

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis


[ Parent ]
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