"Send 'em back with a bullet in the head the second time."

by: DeniseVelez

Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 22:36:06 PM EDT


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Said a man with a megaphone outside an Obama health care rally.

There has been much discussion here about health care reform, about open racism on the airwaves and the increasing threats against the life of our POTUS. But I'm warning that the second firestorm of hate is about to roll down the mountainsides of our land like lava.  

DeniseVelez :: "Send 'em back with a bullet in the head the second time."
We already have hate(post 9/11)the Arabs/Muslims.  We have a long history of hate the scary black people. We now have a black POTUS with a scary Muslim middle name, who is the head of our country, who isn't going to be allowed to talk to school kids.  

But if you think it's bad now, just wait.  Lou Dobbs and his minions, though right now eclipsed by Glenn Beck and his Beckette's, are waiting, yes, salivating in the wings, to unleash the lash against the "aliens" among us. War of the Worlds. Part II.  

Those brown people, the ones who pick the fruits and veggies, wash the dishes in diners, empty the trash and wax the floors of your office, prune the bushes, and nanny the babies, have ancestors who have been here on this continent since before Columbus got lost and bumped into some islands.  Those brown people, with surnames like Vasquez, and Sanchez, and yes, Sotomayor, are invading, and having babies and taking over red, white and blue America.

Yeah, call 'em Latinos, or Hispanics, what's the difference? They all look alike anyway.  From the people who brought you "The Only Good Indian is a dead Indian" sentiment, we've now got Indians (and Africans) with strange sounding surnames, who have to be sent back somewhere, fast.  Preferably with a bullet to the head.  Perhaps we should change the strange sounding names of states like Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, Nuevo Mexico, Tejas, to something more Anglo. More American.  

I would venture a guess that Health Care Reform, like Medicare would be okay for folks if they could figure out a way to keep poor people (you know those brown and black and red and yellow folks) from accessing it.  Heaven forbid that Carlos, while working on the local farm, should get his hand caught in some machinery and have to go to the emergency room.  Forget about Nilda, who just made your bed in the hotel, and cleaned up your shit(and you forgot to leave a tip)should have a child who has the measles. Screw Juana, from the Phillipines who emptied your bedpan.

Build the walls higher (but only to the south- hopefully folks will leave following the North Star to Canada on the Second Underground railroad to freedom and health care).  Send out Blackhawk copters.  Secure the borders, we are under siege.

The haters have already got plenty of those brown and black people locked up in our nations prisons which are bursting at the seams.  Congratulations U.S.A. You win the prison Olympics. No more room at the inn. Shit, there weren't enough buses to get those third world types out of New Orleans (are they Americans anyway?) so let's just find a quick fix.  The Lone Ranger used silver bullets.  Wonder why he didn't use 'em on his sidekick who was named Tonto (stupid)?  No matter.

I realize that you folks are focused on town halls, teabaggers, birthers, and bigots with a capital B.  But listen carefully to the subtext. America is doomed.  The black man who forced a wise Latina down our throats, is gonna let those brown folks steal us blind and rob us of our heritage. We now have Nativism with a capital N.

No matter those folks bleed red blood like everyone else, and die like everyone else in our wars.  No matter that they pay taxes, and sustain local economies.  Get them out. By any means necessary.

Fuego, fuego fuego...the firestorm is coming.  

Wayyyy back in 2006 the Southern Policy Law Center issued a report called White Hot: Across the country, the overheated immigration debate fuels racist extremism and violent, anti-Hispanic hate crimes.

But that was in 2006.  Surely things have gotten better in our post-racial paradise?

This story came out yesterday:  Study: Anti-Immigrant Hate Crimes Persist

NEW YORK-According to a research report released by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) on Wednesday, Latino immigrants of Suffolk County, N.Y., are abused and discriminated against, on a regular basis, leading to an atmosphere of terror in the region.

The research was conducted in the aftermath of a brutal killing of an Ecuadorian immigrant, Marcelo Lucero, in Patchogue, N.Y., on November 8, 2008, which received national attention. Police reports indicate that the murder was executed by a group of seven teenagers, known as "Caucasian Crew," who routinely conducted physical attacks on Latino immigrants. Following this tragic incident, a Spanish-speaking researcher from SPLC was sent to interview legal and illegal immigrants in the region.

The report cites numerous incidents of unjust racial profiling, harassment, verbal attacks, and physical beatings experienced by Latino residents of Suffolk County; including first-person accounts. Some of the listed examples include beatings with baseball bats, being shot with BB guns, and being run off the road while riding bicycles.

"I was crossing the street, and there was a car coming. First, they stopped for me to cross the street, and then, when I am crossing, they ran me over. When I fell on the ground, they got out of the car and kicked me," recalled Carlos Morales, who moved from Mexico in 1998, in his interview published in the report. "They took baseball bats out of the back of their car. They hit me on my knees, in the face, on my back. One of them put his foot on my mouth and said, 'You should go back to where you come from, you dirty Mexican.' And he continued to hit me," he continued.

I've been out to do research in Suffolk County NY.  Have interviews with hundreds of farm workers, and immigrants.  Seen the same stuff in Nassau county, Westchester and Putnam.  This is not the south folks.  So no way to point a finger down there.  

Time to wake up and smell the cafe folks.

Cross posted at Daily Kos

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There is so much more emotion in the air than the politics of the President seem to warrant/. (2.00 / 9)
It is becoming obvious that the opportunity for the forces of fear to culminate in the actions of their worst members.  Joe Scarborough - who I generally respect as a reasonable conservative voice - was arguing that "fear is a valid emotion" the other morning to no push-back.

Fear is not a valid emotion to base decisions on.  It is a blind and stupid emotion reserved for animal reactions to uncontrolled and un-understood threats.

The fostering and fanning of fear is making it possible for those on the furthest extreme to mingle with a more passable crowd.  My eventful exit from a Glen Beck group I had joined was triggered by my desire to point out to these basically reasonable (well, most of them) folks that they were associating with extremists that they would not willingly support.  Their response was "hey, it's not us saying those things" but they miss the point that they are fans of the same things, they are promoting the same memes, and they are providing legitimacy to insanity:

Cxxxxxx, he is talking about the comments on YouTube at the bottom of one of those videos. The videos themselves are old, but the comments are new (one within 24 hours).

This would be character assassination by association.  At the beginning he asks a question, but by the end gives his predetermined conclusion of "white supremacist". I am not

I feel we will have a lot of interviews in years to come with people like these, and they will consist of "I never supported the violence that followed..."  No, but you enabled it.

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon


Joe Scarborough is one of the people i have no respect for (2.00 / 5)
I have my tv set to avoid his program.  Under the guise of conservatism he has made numerous dog whistle comments, and he plays host to a dyed-in-the-wool racist, "Uncle Pat", who is not my Uncle and should be the "Uncle" figure for anyone of good sense.  

"If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition"

Bernice Johnson Reagon


[ Parent ]
I'm with you (2.00 / 5)
Joe Scarborough turns my stomach with his phony, "I'm just a regular guy" person.   His hypocrisy is stomach turning and his elitist attitude is always evident.  

I see nothing reasonable at all in that blowhard.

"You can have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, or democracy. But you cannot have both."
- Louis Brandeis


[ Parent ]
The soft bigotry of low associations (2.00 / 6)
I feel we will have a lot of interviews in years to come with people like these, and they will consist of "I never supported the violence that followed..."  No, but you enabled it.

This is why your time spent on the Glenn Beck group was so important,Chris. You weren't trolling, or working as an agent provocateur. Quite the opposite. You were reminding people of where words can lead, and the emotions contained therein, and right wing vigilante violence has a long history in your country.

So yes, it is evil to stand by and do nothing, while others threaten to do something evil. A lesser evil to be sure, but part of the soft bigotry of low associations.

Something similar, though naturally on a much smaller scale is  happening here since the hard right racist BNP fluked two seats in the Euro Elections (a proportional electoral system). They garnered something like 800,000 votes, but part of my absence from the Moose has been long battles in British blogosphere, stopping the reasonable right using the crazies as an excuse to 'open up space' for discussions of repatriation of immigrants etc.

The violent crazies allow some to go "I don't want Obama killed, but...." and their complicity must be explained to them. The supremacists and libertarian fringes make centre right people feel relatively good about their values, but they don't seem to notice how far the agenda has slipped to the hard right.  

The p***artist formerly known as 'Brit'


[ Parent ]
neci... (2.00 / 7)
as i said elsewhere - this is just so very sad to me.

"I spend my days and nights pondering the meaning of life, the state of the universe, and the Home Shopping Network." -- Donald Roller Wilson

We are so far from beiing post-racial that it's silly to even use that phrase (2.00 / 9)
unless you are talking about some far distant future.

I read a lot of blog comment threads and am usually unhappy when people accuse anyone who opposes the President's proposals of being a racist even when the person hasn't made any comment that could be considered in the least racist. However, the more comments I read and the more hate I see out there the more I come to realize that much of the hatred really is about race. All this talk about taking back "our country" is based on race. Twisting President Obama's name to thinks like "Obumbo" or making negative comments about Michelle Obama are clear signs that the writer is influenced by racial hatred.

The supposed fear of "soshulism" or "dirty commies" isn't about conservative vs liberal. It is a fear of the browning of America. The feeling that whites are no longer in charge.

These are the people that say the Civil War never ended. As far as they are concerned the last 150 years are only an intermission. Their parents or grandparents probably went to watch a lynching for entertainment.

Thankfully, they aren't the majority and never have been. But there are enough of them to still cause mayhem. One small group, like the one in Patchogue can terrorize an entire community.

Sadly, I believe we all have a bit of racism in our bones. It comes from our distant ancestors. Fear of the outsider is even common among animal groups. It is hard not to note the differences when we look at someone of a different color or speak to someone who has a different accent. That isn't racism. Letting it influence your feelings about that other person is racism.

I hate to say it, but this is going to get worse before it gets better. There won't be a change until communities demand change and pressure their local officials to crack down on this type of behavior.

BTW, they'll need to rename Michigan too, since the name comes from an Algonquin word. And the name of the largest city in Michigan comes from those dirty Frenchies.

This is not a recession. It's a robbery.


The conversation needs to be had, openly and actively and for a long time. (2.00 / 9)
I, too, am long since tired of cries of "racism!" at the drop of every hat.  I think everyone is (the penultimate recent commentary on topic still goes to Chris Rock).  But that doesn't mean that we don't have significant issues still to work through, and we need to figure out how to have the next level of conversation and thought.

A good friend of mine and I have been talking about most of these issues a lot in recent days.  We're both white folks, he's much more conservative than I am and belongs to an evangelical church, but we both feel the same way about the issues associated with race.  Just today we got around to mentioning to each other that we both have native ancestors (though you'd never know to look at either of us), and other recent reading/watching has me wondering how many mono-racial people there really are left if only we really knew our own family backgrounds.

Most of the racial angst out there today is more an unfocused fear of the unknown, but as it is manifested more widely and often it is providing support and cover for the real racist freaks.  I don't think there are more white supremacists around, they just have more opportunities to blend in with existing activity and spread their stupidity.

BTW, this diary is #1 on the KOS reclist.  WTG, Denise!

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon


[ Parent ]
Good morning Chris (2.00 / 6)
I'm still over at DKos replying to comments from last night after I finally got to bed.  As you stated over there, the pace is more frenetic.  Here we get to have more in-depth discussion, which is a good thing.

I agree that there are not "more" racists.  What is different is that now it is permissible, and lauded in certain sectors to be openly racist and xenophobic.  

For those of us who have always seen them, felt them, heard them, this is not news.  It should however be a wake up call for those comfortable in their "whiteness".  


"If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition"

Bernice Johnson Reagon


[ Parent ]
I guess I'm more naive than I thought because while I certainly (2.00 / 6)
didn't think Obama's election was going to miraculously make race relations smooth out and we'd all just get along I didn't expect this level of vitriol.  With no pushback.  Where are civil rights leaders and Congress people?  We got mealy-mouthed responses on the crap about Sotomayor.  People are one step away from openly calling for the assassination of the president while folks bring guns to events he's at.  Just a peep here and there but it's largely ignored.  Referring to people as Hitler is now de rigueur.

As long as folks can get away with it, they'll say it.  Out loud.  In public.  Until someone gets hurt.  And then some will say, "Oops, we never meant for anyone to get hurt."  Or, "You can't blame me.  I'm not responsible," a la Bill O'Reilly and Dr. Tiller.

I listened to Darian Dauchan's poem about Barack Obama yesterday and was struck again by the line,  "You think this country is ready for you?  Oh what, you're going to make them ready for you?"  I thought we were ready but we weren't.  Now it's open season on all people of color and it's terrifying.

He's a vicious f****er. First he kicks The Donald in the nuts, laughs about it, and then orders two bullets to the head of OBL. I voted for him out of hope but the second time will be out of fear. ~ oldskool on the Wonkette


[ Parent ]
You are exactly where I am. (2.00 / 7)
I'm no blind optimist (fatal optimist, perhaps, but not blind) and I never expected Obama to suddenly heal all racial wounds, but I never believed the pre-election hype from the skinhead-kin about how it would trigger a race war.

Now, I'm not so sure.

Certainly we aren't looking at a race war in the "all white against all black" definition, but 0.01% of those right of center = 15,000 people and now I am not at all certain that we won't have war brought to us by some of them.  0.00001% is still 15, and that's more than it took to plan 9/11.

Anyone who sees these people as any more rational, reasonable, sane or less-than-contemptible than brown-skinned terrorists is smoking the wrong end of their crack pipe.  These people are armed and dangerous and they are being egged on - just as in the Muslim world - by a huge crowd of enablers who aren't willing to call them what they are: terrorists and murderers.

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon


[ Parent ]
Here in Texas. (2.00 / 7)
It's open season on outward discrimination on Hispanics.  I have had people say things to me in public places without even knowing who I am about how all the Mexicans are ruining everything.  And of course, growing up in South Carolina, all you have to do is substitute "Mexicans" with "blacks."

I would think it is exhausting being so hateful, but they keep proving me wrong.

By the way, I love SPLC.  Amazing work they do.  Makes me proud to be a lawyer because they make being a lawyer a noble profession.


It's scary, (2.00 / 7)
the racial tension in this country. It's always been here, of course, with varying degrees of outward visibility. It's not just an undercurrent anymore though. And maybe it never was for a lot of people. But it just seems to me that, of late, the racially charged rhetoric is getting louder and louder. Of course, much of that has to do with the fact that we've recently elected our first African American president. Racial tensions are reaching a boiling point, and hate is bubbling to the surface, where perhaps it was once better hidden -- or at least less proudly flaunted.

The people who believed we would inherit a post-racial society after Obama's election were naive, and have been sorely disappointed (if their eyes are open, anyway).

But it seems to me as if people like Dobbs are getting louder too -- not just in their racist rantings against the president, but in their xenophobic hysterics over immigrants. It's both dangerous and sad. My heart goes out to the immigrant community, legal AND otherwise. Immigration reform is going to be a real circus. We think the backlash against healthcare is bad? Just wait until Obama and his pals in Congress start trying to help brown people. He'll REALLY be labeled a racist and a white-hater then.

Speaking of racism, discrimination, etc., I'd really like to have an in depth racial dialogue on The Moose. I'm reading a book on multiculturalism right now, and I'm very interested in the authors' ideas about what it means to be white. They write from a minority viewpoint (they are Asian American, I believe), and they have some fascinating insights about white "culture". When I finish the book, I think I'll write a diary on it -- I would love a really open, honest discussion, and I can't think of a better place to have it than here on The Moose.



Soul, heart, and body, we thus singly name,
Are not in love divisible and distinct,
But each with each inseparably link'd.
One is not honour, and the other shame,
But burn as closely fused as fuel, heat, and flame.


That is a discussion (2.00 / 8)
I would like to have. As an anthropologist I believe deeply in the social construction of "race" and have a deep interest in the expansion and extension of "whiteness".

There are several really thought provoking books on this topic.

When you post that diary - count me in.  Though I am constructed as "the other" here in the United States, I have had the experience of being "not other" in other cultures.


"If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition"

Bernice Johnson Reagon


[ Parent ]
As an anthropologist/archaeologist... (2.00 / 3)
...I'm beginning to wonder how long before we start to see a radical expansion of internecine violence a la the post classic period Maya.

I don't know where the tipping point is, but I've little doubt it's nearing.

Earth is the best vacation place for advanced clowns. --Gary Busey
 


[ Parent ]
Do you really mean this fogiv? (2.00 / 4)
What makes you think that? It truly would be apocalyptic given the globalisation of economies, and the mingling and mixing of cultures and races over the last century.

Of course, WWII was partly - through the racial theories of the Nazis - exactly this apocalypse. They were driven by a belief that Jews needed to be eliminated from Europe, and all Slavs turned into serfs or slaves. How could we ever repeat that error again?

I'm not saying you're wrong - but rationally it defies belief. 50 million dead in Europe. How could we possibly look over that brink again?

The p***artist formerly known as 'Brit'


[ Parent ]
I don't necessarily see us going there, but to answer your question: (2.00 / 4)
"by forgetting about the last time."

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon

[ Parent ]
This is why the Obama is Hitler meme (2.00 / 4)
is so insidious. I don't think Americans have the same recollections or sense of horror of WWII as most Europeans. After all, it was not fought on our soil. And the war ended over 60 years ago.

If I had not studied it further, most of my understanding would be from old (and new) war movies. And most of them glorify the US as the heroes of that war. I actually believe the US was the hero of that war, but most Americans do not know how many of our politicians and Lindbergh's wanted to side with Germany.

I think the very people that are calling Obama Hitler are the type that were drawn to Hitler in the 30's. That is, they are ignorant, frightened, nationalistic, racist, and very religious.    

I am years behind and decades ahead. ~ Somebody else, I am certain


[ Parent ]
It's insidious (2.00 / 6)
because the response from those using it is to pull out the, "That's racist!" card on any calling them out over the idea.  It is supposed to invoke the idea that they are Post-Racial, and that by calling them out on the issue, that they get to play the "Democrats are RACISTS!" plug.

All the while walking up and down the street in black face.

We can't associate with race haters and then get to rise above that.  You can't call someone a dirty sekeet moolsim and then claim that your faith is under attack. In the same way that if you're Muslim, you can't protest a Hindu temple being built in your town by parading around a severed cow's head, and then claim that you're being persecuted and hounded.  

It comes down to how much can you respect chutzpah?  Lately politics has been about pushing those with biggest brass balls to the fore, and they seem to be Double Dog Daring one another to make the most asinine statements and see who can get away with.

Which makes the Van Jones tale interesting.  Going to be hard to keep pushing "That's Racist!" thing going much longer as folks get closer and closer to just saying "I don't want a goddamn nigger in office!"

And folks are. And when that ceiling finally breaks, it's going to be ugly. Fast. Because the support that the RNC has been enjoying in the media, has been pushed by folks who've been on the fringe for a while. It's useful to keep them  around as attack dogs, but the moment one of them snaps and finally lets loose with their real reason for opposing the new Administration, that plank is going to be yanked out from under them, and some talking head is going to try to spin, "We had no idea he was like that..."

Like the shooter in DC recently.  He was a long known white supremacist, and suddenly Free Republic couldn't remember who he was--despite being a regular and popular contributor.  

It's a disingenuous strategy, and I hope that it snaps soon, so we can flush this garbage out...


[ Parent ]
Outrageous claims and outrageous behavior (2.00 / 5)
make for good television. So does watching stupid people do stupid things. That's much of the attraction of reality tv. No tv crew worth their salary would go to an event and come back with interviews of sane people making rational arguments about an issue if they can find one nut to make some outrageous comments.

This is not a recession. It's a robbery.

[ Parent ]
I keep thinking that the (2.00 / 4)
rational middle is going to get it any day now...I just hope the snap is not going put the nation in a state of mourning.

I am years behind and decades ahead. ~ Somebody else, I am certain


[ Parent ]
I do mean it. (2.00 / 3)
Though I exaggerate a bit perhaps w/ reference to the Maya (though I don't find the possibility of a similar scenario far-fetched).  We do have an alarmingly similar set of circumstances (or symptoms if you prefer) afoot here.  Think ecological problems (pollution, climate change, potential for epidemic disease) coupled with other woes (faltering economy, overpopulation, and a festering cultural divide).

Now, I don't think we're on the brink of the 'end of days' apocalypse necessarily.  That said, the United States is undoubtably an empire in decline, and I do think there is a potential for dramatic increases in internecine violence, maybe not on "Helter Skelter" levels, but I thinks things are inclined to get much worse before they get better.  

We know already that there has been an increase in activity associated with extremist groups (anyone remember that forced recent apology from the Dept. of Homeland Security)?  We have teabaggers showing up to Presidential events with loaded weapons, and what appears to be an ever increasing mob of ignorance that refuses to respect the office of the President; they negate the institution entirely, hence all of the 'usurper' garbage.  John Allen and I exchanged this idea earlier, that a large and growing percentage of our populace is remarkably stupid and/or ignorant.  The sheer number of people who are susceptible to this mindless WorldNetDaily drivel, Glenn Beck crap, etc. is something the entire world should be very concerned about.

I've been thinking about doing a diary on this for awhile; mulling it over in my head for months now, re-reading Jared Diamond's Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed and your own Toynbee's A Study of History.  Many of the ingredients common to the fall of civilizations are in place already, and others are poised.  Some pretty alarming stuff.

Civilizations almost never die a victim of murder, most often they commit suicide.

Earth is the best vacation place for advanced clowns. --Gary Busey
 


[ Parent ]
Yet the conditions are always present (2.00 / 3)
to one degree or another. That's why people have been predicting the end of the world for thousands of years.

Empires rarely die quick deaths unless they are based on an individual, like the Napoleonic empire. The British empire may have morphed into the Commonwealth, but Britain is still there. The Spanish empire didn't vanish after Drake vanquished the Spanish armada.

Something else to keep in mind, we aren't really an empire in the traditional sense no matter what the neocons think. The rules of empire don't quite apply to us in the same way they did to the USSR.

This is not a recession. It's a robbery.


[ Parent ]
We will be the strongest country economicaly and militarily for the next century. (2.00 / 2)
 Barring a truly catastrophic event, the American Empire will dominate for the next century. No one comes close. China will continue to grow economicaly only until her people question the growing imbalance between rich and poor. Their government is the bank and cronyism has led to a huge percentage of non-performing loans. The Russians are still a very backward country. The European Union fights with itself. We still have the ability to squeeze anyone economicaly, and technologicaly we are without peer.

  I don't state this as a good thing or a bad thing, just a thing.


[ Parent ]
Just one thing (2.00 / 3)
The European Union fights with itself.

Do you mean at soccer? We don't invade Alsace Lorraine regularly anymore, but there are political struggles in the Parliament. However, compared to the way wingnuts are fighting against your president at the moment, it seems like a walk in the park in comparison

The p***artist formerly known as 'Brit'


[ Parent ]
Currently we have better wingnuts than you Brit. (2.00 / 3)
We would like to export some to Europe, but it does raise the spector of tariffs and a nasty trade war.

[ Parent ]
Sounds about right to me (n/t) (2.00 / 2)


Earth is the best vacation place for advanced clowns. --Gary Busey
 


[ Parent ]
I don't disagree, John... (2.00 / 3)
...and I'm not predicting the end of the world here, nor am I suggesting it's imminent.

Empires rarely die quick deaths unless they are based on an individual, like the Napoleonic empire. The British empire may have morphed into the Commonwealth, but Britain is still there. The Spanish empire didn't vanish after Drake vanquished the Spanish armada.

Indeed, the Maya are still there too (and though lacking formal education a number of them are, to my mind, the finest archaeologists in the world).  The demise of their civilization was only sudden in geologic time.  Instead, it was a rather gradual degredation catalyzed by a combination of ecological and non-ecological factors that led to internecine violence, and ultimately internal warfare (themselves catalysts in the implosion).  Anyway, civilizations don't so much "die" as they collapse and reform.

Something else to keep in mind, we aren't really an empire in the traditional sense no matter what the neocons think. The rules of empire don't quite apply to us in the same way they did to the USSR.

You're absolutely right.  As Brit alluded to earlier, global-eye-zation (as I imagine his voice saying) has ensured that the rammifications of our empire's decline are vastly more complicated than anything in comparative history.


Earth is the best vacation place for advanced clowns. --Gary Busey
 


[ Parent ]
Yes, that's the way out of Imperial Decline (2.00 / 3)
I'm sure you can find empires that successfully did this in the past (maybe Egyptians with Nubians, or Romans with Gauls) but by incorporating the periphery, the empire avoids over-reach. In a sense, Obama's ancestry and story is precisely this. The empire is no empire because it belongs to the world. I'm the son of the poor Kenyan student, and now I'm President. We don't seek to control, occupy or exploit you, but to enable, accept and enfranchise you

On this level, immigration will be the real touchstone, and that could well be explosive. It will speak to a conflict in the US that reaches to the turmoils of its core history, from nativists to secesssionists to segregationists. It will be a titanic struggle, akin to the fight over isolationism or engagement before World War II, and one with equally profound repercussions for the world I suspect

The p***artist formerly known as 'Brit'


[ Parent ]
Well said. (2.00 / 2)
You should consider writing for a living...

;~)

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon


[ Parent ]
Your Mayan analogy is telling that way (2.00 / 2)
I read Jared Diamond's collapse too, in a similiar way, but in his Guns, Germs and Steel he shows how cultural transmission was always a problem in the Americas (crops and ideas found it harder to travel north/south compared to the horizontal transmission in Eurasia).

I would have thought that given the perviousness of American culture to new ideas through media and education would make it less susceptible to these idiotic and dangerous ideas. But then again, the internet and TV also spawns and propagates idiocy as much as wit and knowledge, so that might be no more useful than bread and circuses.

My brother and his Kenyan wife (whom I'm staying with now between moving apartments) would certainly agree that things were much more tense for them this year when they travelled in the South, particularly Nashville. A lot of angry young white men who feel betrayed by Obama, who doubles their infuriation by being both smart and black.

I still believe that these are a small proportion of Americans, and the last nasty side effect of the Southern Strategy.

But Empires in decline. My youth was vitiated by violence by angry white young men, mainly expressed in soccer hooliganism, for their perceived loss of status. Great Britain ruled a quarter of the world when my mother was born, but by the 70s was the 'sick man of Europe'. The falling off was felt at a visceral level by the poor, unemployed and white. Someone had taken their greatness away... if in doubt blame the people who look different


The p***artist formerly known as 'Brit'


[ Parent ]
Indeed. (2.00 / 4)
You've captured essentially what I was driving at.  I'm not predicting anything on the scale of genocide, or civil war, and not certainly not anytime soon.  When I said internecine violence before, I meant to invoke it in its most bare form (i.e. violent conflict within a group).  

What I can imagine however, and I'd love nothing more than being completely wrong, is a steady if gradual increase in 'teh crazy' rhetoric that serves to escalate some of the conflict we're seeing at rallys, etc. to ever increasing levels of violence.  Just the other day, a pro-reform guy bit the finger off a teabagger at a town hall meeting.  This barely nine months into Obama's presidency.  The questions that keep me up at night are these:

How much wider will 'teh crazy' flume have permeated, say by the second year of a second Obama term?  Is the potential for domestic terrorism increasing?  Will participation and recruitment in anti-goverment 'militias' increase?  Will the economy have improved enough to placate?

A little perspective:  much of 'the crazy' we've seen up to this point is on healthcare reform, which was quickly spun to government controlled euthanasia.  What happens when Obama tries to tackle immigration reform, and it's spun as "the Usurper is leading brown/black takeover of the nation to steal our jobs and destroy white people?

Probably won't be a good time to be a person of color in Tennessee then either.  

Earth is the best vacation place for advanced clowns. --Gary Busey
 


[ Parent ]
Do it, Sricki (2.00 / 6)
The same discussion is going on in the UK, now that the BNP racist right are more visible, and the Tories I meet on blogs all rant on and on about UK immigration. I doubt they are talking about all the Americans and Canadians and Australians.

In the UK, this connects a long history of racial resentment towards migrants (my adopted kid brother experienced this in the 70s) which seemed to ease for a while towards Black people, and now has become focused on people of Pakistani, Kashmiri and Bangla Deshi backgrounds. It's a horrible combination of fear of the other, and Islamophobia, with vocal atheists (whom I normally admire like Richard Dawkins) paying Islam particular attention as a hateful religion.

Oddly, and I'm writing a play about this as we speak, the attacks on Pakistanis by the racist right has further been aggravated by tensions between Afro Caribbeans and Muslims, especially in former Industrial cities in the North. There was a Black versus Muslim riot four years ago in Birmingham, and now anti Muslim groups are recruiting both whites and blacks!

Bizarre stuff.

When I get a moment, and I'm between two apartments, I will write my Islamophobia diary. But something on ethnicity and race would be a great conversation  

The p***artist formerly known as 'Brit'


[ Parent ]
Its always about fear of the other. (2.00 / 6)
Are we wired that way? We live in the most dominant culture the world has ever seen yet there are those among us who fear a black President addressing their school children. We have a Dobbs and Tancredo who make their  living screaming about a brown invasion.The disconnect from empathy disturbs me.

Every child has at one point in their life been on the recieving end of taunts and cruel jokes. Black, white, brown weve all been there. How do so many lose the memory of the pain that causes and find themselves doing it to "others" without remorse. Raised a middle class white, I can only imagine how painful taunts and jokes must be for non whites as they grow up where the dominant culture looks a little different than they.

 When Michelle Obama said she was "finally proud of her country", I knew what she meant and felt some embarrassment. That emotion coupled with anger is what I most often feel when it comes to race in this country.
One last thought, as our economy recovers and then begins to grow again, we will reach a point where we our more and more reliant on imigrants and guest workers to fill the jobs the new economy will bring. Jobs that must come and must be filled if we are to generate enough revenue to pay for retiring baby boomers. With that the demogrphics of the Southwest will change radically and forever.


That "controversy" (2.00 / 6)
When Michelle Obama said she was "finally proud of her country", I knew what she meant and felt some embarrassment.

I couldn't understand why that was so bad.  I knew what she meant and probably some of what she felt.  To me, that whole controversy seemed like an extension of "you're with us or you're against us" and there's no room for questioning, thinking, or differences of opinion.

I haven't followed any Lou Dobs controversy.  I know that he ranted and raved about illegal immigration when that was the hot topic, but I stopped giving him any sort of traction when his thing to skewer was the civil justice system.


[ Parent ]
It was those folks who think this country can do no wrong (2.00 / 6)
who took issue with Michelle's statement.  Of course, they were mostly white folks who haven't had to live the life Michelle had to.  But because she was educated at Ivy League schools she has no right to complain; affirmative action and all of that.

He's a vicious f****er. First he kicks The Donald in the nuts, laughs about it, and then orders two bullets to the head of OBL. I voted for him out of hope but the second time will be out of fear. ~ oldskool on the Wonkette

[ Parent ]
In Mass you see a lot of push against immigrants as well (2.00 / 6)
Given the number of Estonian and Russians coming over and settling And it is very much like the same hate that the Italian and Irish and Poles who settled into Western Mass saw. It's not a push back just against brown people...

What is sad is that folks seem to forget that pretty much all of us were immigrants at one point or another.

And it's fear that's moving this--especially with our economic woes. And it has been an easy target when things aren't doing well domestically, to blame those problems on our neighbors.  Obviously the new guys are to blame for the problems. It was just fine a few years ago, right?  What's changed?  The Estonian family down the block. The Mexican kids in school and the ricer kids with their souped up imports running up and down the streets.  

Change is scary stuff, and there are always folks who will capitalize on it. Forgetting quickly, how many of those neighbors were immigrants themselves. My own family, we came over in with the waves of Irish and German immigrants, mixing it up in Missouri with a few odd duck English and Scots who wandered into the area looking for work, and to escape some of the bias back East.  They rolled into a firmly settled Missouri, and put down roots, and transformed from Irish and German immigrants to Mid Westerners.  But those roots were still from "Away."  They just traded their foreign status by virtue of being able to stick it out long enough, and having last names similar to their neighbors.

In Maine, you can see part of that regional love of neighbors and insular culture a bit more.  Maine considers folks from New Hampshire and Massachusetts and anywhere across its own borders to be from "Away" though--and Flatlanders can't help not having the brains God gave a smelt.  But Mainers have to deal with them folks from Away every summer. Even the Summah Folk who move back to their islands and homes, they're sometimes despised, sometimes doted upon, sometimes just accepted as a necessary evil, but it still revolves around "them" being different.

We are troop critters. No matter what. No matter if we head into space, no matter how advanced we are, we are troop animals and we build our social dynamics from this heritage. We can adopt folks into our troop--it's not about smell, or color, but we have a range of social cues that we accept in--but most of what we call "racism" boils down to that troop dynamic.  And likewise, social class is rolled up in that troop dynamic as well.

We see folks who are different--speech, dress, coloration, behavioral, culture, language--and it sets off that ape reaction.   We may welcome these folks as neighbors, but we mark them as "Other."  Now then, we may come to put them into our troop mentality in time. As neighbors, as school mates, as countrymen, as team mates, as co-workers, we have a staggering array of methods for ranking our troop mates.  But, when resources get low--or our perception of resources getting low triggers, that ape brain makes the connections.  

It saddens me that folks are using this "racist" crap--it's less racial than boiling down to fear of the Other, and brown folks and recent immigrants are convenient targets, and understanding where this walking ape reaction comes from does nothing to alleviate the very real fear and urge to scapegoat in the presence of forces that they don't understand themselves--and my own party needs to address this.  Because it's not just not winning us inroads with minority communities, it runs against the traditions of the party, and it would be nice if folks remembered those.

Every economic downturn has its moments when the troop decides to cut off a piece of the troop as "Other" to conserve resources. It's built into our DNA, and on the savannah it was a necessary tool in our social tool book. The ability to juggle social cues to accept or deny, and make those changes stick in the ape brain allowed us flexibility to come together, or split apart as needs arose or fell.  I just wish that the leadership realized that now IS the time to pull together, not split apart.


[ Parent ]
Rural Ontario is a good model of this, like Maine. (2.00 / 5)
Good people, no doubt, not a knuckle-dragging inbred Klanner to be seen.  But racist as the day is long.

Why?

They're all the same.  You can drive an hour in any direction and stop to see people who look and sound just like you do.  It's incredibly comforting, never having to wonder how some stranger is going to act, not having to pause and consider if something you do might be offensive to their tastes.  You know their tastes - they're the same as yours.

On our lake north of Toronto we weren't entirely white.  We had a Pakistani who actually owned a cottage and was as tight with us as any other of us.  Well, not Pakistani Pakistani, born and raised in Canada with no trace of foreign accent or culture, but if you look close you can tell that he's a bit too dark to be just tanned.  I had heard that a black family owned one of the 2,000 cottages on the lake, but while I never saw them with my own eyes the fact that I heard about it speaks volumes.  When a Korean family looked at buying our home it was the topic of conversation from our friends...

Racists?  Surely not.  A more liberal, friendly and accepting bunch of folks you can't find anywhere.  When one of our friends said out loud that he didn't think white people should marry black people it was scandalous.  People just don't say such things.

Yes.  They don't say them...  

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon


[ Parent ]
When I was teaching in Maine (2.00 / 8)
and note, that Maine had one of the largest Klan memberships outside the Deep South at the turn of the century, mostly directed at French Canadians and their ilk, I had a profound moment with one of my students.

I was teaching in Skowhegan. Mill town. Hard scrabble mill town.  The river is redolent of the mill waste.  It is one of the 22 cities in Maine, but like Ellsworth, you would barely call it a town in Massachusetts or New York.

I was doing my student teaching. I'd spent half a semester in an alternative school for last chance kids--kids who'd been booted from the public schools, and for whom the Crossroads program was their last chance to have a school experience or get along with a GED. High risk kids--lots of abuse, learning disabilities, and all of them behavioral problems.  Coming out of Crossroads, I'd been exposed to a lot that Skowhegan had to offer its kids including having to lay out one of my students' step father--under the watchful gaze of the County Sheriff and his deputies who'd come to arrest him for abusing one of his daughters.  I had moved on from the Crossroads program--though I continued to volunteer with reading and tutoring with "my" kids--and was in the middle school in a much more traditional environment.  My 7th and 8th graders were a mixed bag.  Good kids for the most part--a few that raised some flags, a few just plain mean little cusses, and a couple of kids who were probably Crossroads bound if someone didn't catch them early enough.

One of my kids was definitely bound on that track. His father was a mill worker, he was divorced, he drank, and his son was paying for it all.  Not a bad kid, but I knew a lot of the signs from my own experience as the son of an alcoholic.  I was tutoring him, and trying to get his math skills up--he read just fine, even if he didn't necessarily like the stuff we gave him in English class.  I was doing a unit on racism, and he stopped me in the middle of our math tutoring to talk about the new unit.  Because he was genuinely confused.

"Mr. Timmerman, I don't get it. My Dad says we can't trust black people, and I'm reading all this stuff how people hate all these people, but I don't get it. Other than being dark, why do people hate them so much? It doesn't make any sense."  And he looked up at me with so much confusion that it about broke my heart.  Here he was, a kid who had every single chock block thrown in his path, a trifecta of poor, sometimes abused, and in the back crack of civilization, and he couldn't understand why he was supposed to hate on folks. And he thought he was too stupid to understand it.

I told him that there wasn't any real reason. That some folks get scared of what they don't understand, and what's different.  That it just an excuse to put off on others what they didn't want to fix themselves.  And as an 8th Grader who had no problem imagining adults as being vaguely clueless, he accepted that answer and went on his way.

But that incident alone gives me a lot of hope for the future. Well, that and the Five Percenter who wound up singing to my daughter in my kitchen when she was a baby, telling her how she wasn't the White Devil, yet.  But that's another story.  


[ Parent ]
I had one of these moments as a child. (2.00 / 7)
"Mr. Timmerman, I don't get it. My Dad says we can't trust black people, and I'm reading all this stuff how people hate all these people, but I don't get it. Other than being dark, why do people hate them so much? It doesn't make any sense."

I remember it very clearly.  I couldn't understand why the people around me would make negative comments about blacks and Jews, especially when my little friends were blacks and Jews.  I thought my friends were awesome, and I didn't see anything wrong with them...unless of course they wouldn't share. ;)

When someone asks me about my experience growing up in the Deep South, the best analogy that I can come up with is that the racism for many folks is like breathing.  They just do it without really knowing why or thinking about it.  There are the overt racists, but then there are the closet(?) racists...the people who lock the doors in the car or cross the street when they see a black man walking near them.  There are those who hate and seem proud of it and those who fear but think that they aren't racists.


[ Parent ]
Thank you hubie (2.00 / 5)
for that story about the young man you were tutoring.  

I am deeply moved.  

"If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition"

Bernice Johnson Reagon


[ Parent ]
Lulz...sort of... (2.00 / 4)
When one of our friends said out loud that he didn't think white people should marry black people it was scandalous.  People just don't say such things.

This thing is so commonplace in the South.  People do say it outloud, so long as they are only surrounded by white folks.  I'm not sure if Bob Jones University still has its restriction in place over interracial dating.  Holy crap, my parents would have killed me if I had dated a black boy in high school, not to mention that my dad would roll over in his grave if he knew that I had dated not one but TWO (oh my!) black men in my adult life.  I once mentioned something about adopting a child of a different race.  That didn't go over well either, sad to say.

When I first moved to Minnesota, EVERYONE wanted to know my background.  I said that I was from South Carolina, but that wasn't it.  They wanted to know my other background -- German, English, Irish, Norwegian, Swedish?  I didn't even know you could tell European decedents apart (and I still can't).  I said that I didn't know...I was just American.  Apparently my dad's family has been here since 1680 and my mom's since 1750.  I don't know what I am in terms of my European descent NOW with all that skeery intermingling going on, so I offered that I was a mutt. ;)

One of my black friends talked about how many people in her black community disagreed with blacks dating whites.  And I can't count the number of Jews who think that Jews should only be with Jews.

Humans seem very concerned with noting and cataloging differences and then keeping those categories separated, just as you and Hubie have described.  I've never understood why from any logical standpoint, so all I could come up with is that logic has not one damn thing to do with it.


[ Parent ]
And yet we saw after 9/11 (2.00 / 7)
an opening of that "We" to include Americans of all stripes.

In crisis, we pull together. In overt crisis at least. People start blowing stuff up, or there are bullets flying past you, suddenly ethnicity goes out the window, and you bond fast to those who are in the shit with you.

It's in the extended crisis that we tend to run into trouble. We get a remove to thinking about what's best for our families and wonder if there's enough to go around, and the conflict is far away, then we tend to dial in our troop thoughts.  


[ Parent ]
You also sometimes see it when you are overseas. (2.00 / 7)
Americans of all colors suddenly find they have more in common than they thought when they find themselves surrounded by people speaking a different language.

This is not a recession. It's a robbery.

[ Parent ]
I point to Paul Robeson (2.00 / 6)
Who pretty much was THE voice of the African-American community for nearly two generations, and then nearly erased when he suggested that black folks may not want to volunteer to fight a war for a nation that allowed them to be lynched back home.

Rather than consider the words, they questioned his patriotism and loyalty. And his own school, where he'd been of so many great firsts, erased him.  Because he brought up an uncomfortable question.

We need these questions. On both sides.  To the folks who cloak their racism in "patriotism" and to those who coach their own racism as "fairness."  It's just as ugly when it's the Klan as when it's in the face of a Five Percenter.  


[ Parent ]
It is easy for whites to fool themselves into thinking that racism (2.00 / 7)
is less prevalent than it used to be. But that is wishful thinking. This picture by Norman Rockwell has always had a strong effect on me.

Ruby Bridges, the little girl in the picture, is actually 7 years younger than me. She was the first African-American to attend an all-white school in the South. That event was commemorated in Rockwell's painting The Problem We All Live With.

Here are a few quotes from the wiki page about Ruby Bridges.

As Bridges describes it, "Driving up I could see the crowd, but living in New Orleans, I actually thought it was Mardi Gras. There was a large crowd of people outside of the school. They were throwing things and shouting, and that sort of goes on in New Orleans at Mardi Gras."[3] Former marshal Charles Burks later recalled, "She showed a lot of courage. She never cried. She didn't whimper. She just marched along like a little soldier, and we're all very proud of her."

As soon as Bridges got into the school, white parents went in and brought their own children out; all but one of the white teachers also refused to teach while a black child was enrolled. Only Barbara Henry, from Boston, Massachusetts, was willing to teach Bridges, and for over a year Mrs. Henry taught her alone, "as if she were teaching a whole class." That first day, Bridges and her adult companions spent the entire day in the principal's office; the chaos of the school prevented their moving to the classroom until the second day. Every morning, as Bridges walked to school, one woman would threaten to poison her,[5] because of this, the marshals overseeing her only allowed Ruby to eat food that she brought from home. Another woman at the school put a black baby doll in a wooden coffin and protested with it outside the school, a sight that Bridges Hall has said "scared me more than the nasty things people screamed at us." At her mother's suggestion, Bridges began to pray on the way to school, which she found provided protection from the comments yelled at her on the daily walks.

The Bridges family suffered for their decision to send her to William Frantz Elementary: her father lost his job, and her grandparents, who were sharecroppers in Mississippi, were turned off their land. She has noted that many others in the community both black and white showed support in a variety of ways. Some white families continued to send their children to Frantz despite the protests, a neighbor provided her father with a new job, and local people babysat, watched the house as protectors, and walked behind the federal marshals' car on the trips to school.

This all happened almost 50 years ago. We like to think we've come a long way since then, but, I say again, that is wishful thinking. Many of the parents who pulled their children from that school may no longer be with us, but some of them are still alive. Many of them have passed their hatred on to their children who in turn have passed it on to their children. They are the ones who carry on the legacy of racism and hate.

None of us are born racist. We have to be taught to hate others. As long as there are parents out there teaching their children to hate we will have haters amongst us.



This is not a recession. It's a robbery.


We *have* made a lot of progress, it's just a longer path than some think. (2.00 / 6)
And by "some" I mean "me".

I know what it is like to be raised with no racism in the house at all.  Never a single racial joke, ethnic name, frown at the idea of adopting kids of different races, marrying someone of a different race...  I was an adult before I learned there was a different version of "Eenie meanie, miney moe.  Catch a tiger by a toe."  It wasn't that racism wasn't tolerated in the house, it never showed up.  No relatives or guests ever made racial slurs within my hearing.  School in Colorado was monochrome white so there was never an opportunity for racist comments on the playground and the background of the Civil Rights movement perhaps stifled what would have been said otherwise.  The seventh grade in the Chicago suburbs was the first year I went to school with non-whites (about half Mexican): we were all friends as far as I could tell and I was likely too naive to notice any racist comments.  Ironically it was in liberal Canada that I first noticed racism in my own life (I had to have "Paki" explained to me by the kids at school, because apparently it was a big deal).

Now I realize that I was fortunate as a white kid going to school during the pinnacle of the Civil Rights movement to have two parents who had escaped the average views of their own generation.  That for many of my white peers the use of racial pejoratives had been discouraged as improper, but the ideas themselves had not been.  

As you say, many of the folks with the most racist "old time" views are still with us, today.  Many of them have passed those views on to their kids.  That while among the liberal white crowd there were families like mine where racism was not taught, among most conservative (and many "liberal") white families and non-white families racism was openly considered either correct or inevitable (depending on whether you expected your kids to be the perpetrators or the victims).  We are not a single generation into building a culture where most children are not taught to expect to live in a world where their race will determine their lives.

But I think we are getting there.  My limited experience in the rest of the world tells me that there is more consideration to these issues here than there are in most (perhaps any) other countries.  We have made progress, but not all of us together and not enough in total.  And the path is longer than we would like to believe.  

Perhaps by a century or so...

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon


[ Parent ]
One sign that things are better (2.00 / 5)
Racism is less overt. In my teens in the 70s, my kid brother was called 'coon' 'sambo' 'jungle bunny' fairly regularly. How he shrugged it off I don't know, I used to see a red mist when I heard it. But one really never hears those epithets these days. Black Britons (who comprise at least half the English football team that just beat Croatia) are accepted more and more each day. I work a lot with Lenny Henry, perhaps one of our most prominent black celebrities since he became a stand up comic as a teenager himself in the late 70s. When he first married his English wife, Dawn French, they'd receive horrible hate mail for 'miscegenation'. But now interracial marriages are completely acceptable, with a predominant number of non white Londoners actually being mixed race.

And we must remember that racism isn't only a white on black thing. I won't start on the Indian caste system, and the preference for 'wheaten brides' - light skinned partners - but racism is endemic there between Dravidian and Aryans. As for Africa: my sister in law is Kikuyu, and can tell you a lot about the various tribal hatreds in Kenya. Meanwhile, while she and my brother travel to the US (Nashville last time) they had problems in the North with black women approaching her and saying 'what are you doing with the white man?'

That was seven years ago. About the same time they travelled in Atlanta and it was fine. More recently, the trip to Nashville was not nice.

So no one is free from racism (I still have issues about Australians) and no country is free from it either.

But given America's history, and its phenomenal President, I'm not surprised things are acute for a while.

Let the crazies out themselves, and the moral majority push back. I remember hearing for the last twenty years, ever since Jesse Jackson ran,  that 'Americans will never elect a Black President'.

The pessimists were wrong then. Let them be wrong now. But please dear lord (and secret service) protect the innocent from the psychopathic and malevolent.  

The p***artist formerly known as 'Brit'


[ Parent ]
Amen (2.00 / 7)
But please dear lord (and secret service) protect the innocent from the psychopathic and malevolent.  


This is not a recession. It's a robbery.

[ Parent ]
Ruby and her parents showed more courage than I probably would (2.00 / 7)
have.  The marshall describes her and a "little soldier" but she was really a little girl trying to get an education.  The same education offered to white children.  

People may be scared of people that are different than themselves because that's what they were taught but not bothering to learn as adults is their fault.

He's a vicious f****er. First he kicks The Donald in the nuts, laughs about it, and then orders two bullets to the head of OBL. I voted for him out of hope but the second time will be out of fear. ~ oldskool on the Wonkette


[ Parent ]
While I absolutely believe that (2.00 / 6)
race is a huge factor for the anti-Obama sentiment, we cannot forget that these lunatics were out in full force when President Clinton was in office. I remember G Gordon Libby say something to the effect of "go for the head shot" because of bullet proof vests warn by the ATF, FBI, and other government law enforcement.

The shit I have seen lately makes that look like a walk in the park, but for some reason these types of people believe that Democrats are out to destroy our country, in spite of all evidence to the contrary.

The question I ask is, why support a Ronald Reagan or 'lil shrub who actively took steps to restrict and shred our Constitutional rights? It seems so backassward.  

I am years behind and decades ahead. ~ Somebody else, I am certain


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