Gitmo Detainees Coming to Illinois, GOP Suggests We All Cower In Fear

The terrorist have won (2.00 / 2)

Well, they will if Americans allow these asshats to keep them from demanding justice and living in fear.

Reposted for relevance:

Ramzi Yousef-Captured in Pakistan, convicted for role in Bojinka plot in 1996, convicted for role in 1993 WTC bombing, sent to ADX Florence.

Wali Khan Amin Shah-Captured in Manila, convicted for role in Bojinka plot, sent to ADX Florence

Abdul Hakim Ali Hashim Murad - Captured in Manila, convicted for role in Bojinka plot, sent to ADX Florence

Eyad Ismoil - Captured in Amman, extradited to US, convicted of role in 1993 WTC bombing, sent to ADX Florence

Khalfan Khamis Mohamed-Captured in Cape Town, convicted of 1998 Embassy bombings, sent to ADX Florence

Mahmud Abouhalima-Captured in Egypt, convicted of 1993 WTC bombings, sent to ADX Florence

Mohamed Rashed Daoud Al-Owhali-Convicted of 1998 Embassy bombings, sent to ADX Florence

Mohammed Odeh-Captured in Karachi, convicted of 1998 Embassy bombings, sent to ADX Florence

Mohammed A. Salameh-Convicted of involvement in 1993 WTC bombing, sent to ADX Florence

Mohammed Ali Hassan Al-Moayad-Captured in Germany, convicted of federal crimes related to funding Hamas, sent to ADX Florence

Apparently, Colorado hasn't disappeared in a geyser of radioactive vapor from all the pure EVIL concentrated there...  

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by: hubiestubert @ Tue Dec 15, 2009 at 17:39:36 PM CST

I think you're missing some words in your first sentence. :) (2.00 / 1)

Or I need to take a reading comprehension course.

Hey, Brett, piss or get off the pot.  Really.

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by: HappyinVT @ Tue Dec 15, 2009 at 17:47:47 PM CST

Damn! (0.00 / 0)

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon

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by: chrisblask @ Tue Dec 15, 2009 at 20:00:54 PM CST

[ Parent ]

That's not one of the words I was thinking of. :) (2.00 / 1)

Hey, Brett, piss or get off the pot.  Really.

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by: HappyinVT @ Tue Dec 15, 2009 at 20:06:11 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I have a huge problem with this. (2.00 / 2)

the facility could house detainees whom the president determines must be held indefinitely but can't be tried.

If KSM can be tried then surely others can, too.  Or they need to be released.  Or the president will need to make a very strong case for holding these guys.  I'm more skeptical about this than I am regarding Afghanistan so it would be an extremely tough sell.

BTW, I'm surprised no one has raised the issue that these detainees are going to IL, Obama's home state.

Hey, Brett, piss or get off the pot.  Really.

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by: HappyinVT @ Tue Dec 15, 2009 at 17:52:02 PM CST

Funny You Should Mention... (2.00 / 2)

The indefinite detention decision is the one thing which I find completely unacceptable from Obama, morally, legally and even politically.

But even on that one I am willing to suspend judgement and watch the evolution.  In terms of realpolitik, if an individual is such a dire threat to the state then it seems an extrajudicial assassination would have been a more sober course of action.  I place very little faith in the interrogation value of these unfortunates.  That seems a medieval motive.  But now that we've got 'em, what to do with them?  Bad planning.

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by: Shaun Appleby @ Tue Dec 15, 2009 at 18:15:50 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I'd say (2.00 / 2)

yet more bad planning.

With just about everything else the Bush Administration touched they just let the detainees become someone else's problem.  I wonder if they figured it would be a Dem and they'd get some kind of perverse thrill watching the poor dude(tte) suffer trying to solve all the problems.  Hey, it might have been an attempted payback on the Clintons for defeating Bush Sr.  Except we screwed up and elected the "wrong" person.  Wow, this conspiracy stuff is kinda fun.

Hey, Brett, piss or get off the pot.  Really.

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by: HappyinVT @ Tue Dec 15, 2009 at 18:22:24 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Conspiracies are a perpetual toy, (2.00 / 2)

like a small boy and his own penis.  You can fiddle with it forever and it's just as much fun.

Like Shaun, I'll wait and see how it goes.  KSM, for example, can't ever go free (I'd stand outside and wait to shoot him myself), but I have the feeling this administration will do the best we could hope for to resolve the dilemmas.  Not being able to say what was quoted above would just give the Tea Party crowd an, um, "conspiracy" in their pants to play with.

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon

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by: chrisblask @ Tue Dec 15, 2009 at 20:04:33 PM CST

[ Parent ]

{{{snort}}} (2.00 / 2)

I wouldn't know...

like a small boy and his own penis.  You can fiddle with it forever and it's just as much fun.

Seriously, though, I'd have to see who these people are and why the administration thinks they have to be detained indefinitely (and what "indefinitely" really means).  The president gets very little wiggle room or patience on this one from me.

Hey, Brett, piss or get off the pot.  Really.

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by: HappyinVT @ Tue Dec 15, 2009 at 20:11:24 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Patience I have, (2.00 / 2)

wriggle room not so much.  We have precedent to think of, and denying justice to innocent people is not a precedent we want to set.

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon

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by: chrisblask @ Tue Dec 15, 2009 at 20:18:54 PM CST

[ Parent ]

That's the thing. (2.00 / 1)

Who would the administration consider to need indefinite detention?  I would have thought KSM based on the interrogation techniques known to have been used against him.  But he's obviously not one.

So, I'm at a loss.  And, obviously, I don't know the circumstances of all (or most) of the detainees.  But I really can't think of any reason, other than pure politics, that suggests it is appropriate to keep someone indefinitely.

Hey, Brett, piss or get off the pot.  Really.

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by: HappyinVT @ Tue Dec 15, 2009 at 20:25:42 PM CST

[ Parent ]

The problem lies in the idea that apparently no one can try ANYONE (2.00 / 2)

European countries can't try our citizens. Iran can't try anyone either. Or North Korea. Or Saudi Arabia. Or Iraq--heck, we wrote that into law for them. Our system is incapable of handling the truth. It is an interesting wrinkle that apparently no one is able to try anyone without it being a travesty of justice.

For folks who pride themselves on a Law and Order platform, many don't seem to have much faith in it.  

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by: hubiestubert @ Tue Dec 15, 2009 at 20:46:13 PM CST

[ Parent ]

It's People... (2.00 / 1)

We seem to know are baddies whom we can't convict for some reason.  Shooting them on the spot would certainly have been simpler.  But we wanted the interrogation 'intelligence' for what it was worth, which is apparently not much.

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by: Shaun Appleby @ Tue Dec 15, 2009 at 21:50:27 PM CST

[ Parent ]

We wanted them in Michigan. Im sure Illinois is more than capable. nt (2.00 / 3)

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by: creamer @ Wed Dec 16, 2009 at 08:30:32 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I'm not sure why more of the detainees aren't going to (2.00 / 1)

IL unless they are looking at releasing them.  But maybe MI will get some of the remaining 200.  (I read somewhere that IL did a better job wooing those who needed to be wooed.)

Hey, Brett, piss or get off the pot.  Really.

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by: HappyinVT @ Wed Dec 16, 2009 at 09:23:43 AM CST

[ Parent ]

If Only... (2.00 / 2)

They were detained along with other assorted recidivist felons the deterrent effect would be all the stronger.

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by: Shaun Appleby @ Tue Dec 15, 2009 at 18:09:42 PM CST

Some of that midwestern common sense... (2.00 / 1)

"There's the political side about whether the Guantanamo detainees should be brought to American soil, but once that argument is settled, we may as well have them here," said Todd Smith, who owns Buck's Barn Golf Resort, a recreational complex about two miles north of the prison with an 18-hole golf course, 53-room hotel and restaurant.

"Any place that would have been a good target for terrorist before won't change on the basis of where the prisoners are being held."

snip

Lisa Johnson, who helps manage the Station convenience store in Thomson, says economic interests trump any lingering security concerns.

"Everybody's sick and tired of paying taxes on something that's not bringing in any revenue," she said. "Some people are afraid because they use the word terrorist. ... I'm concerned too, but now that the prison is here, fill it up."

Although

But Tuesday's announcement will not solve all the administration's Guantanamo-related problems. More than 200 detainees will remain at Guantanamo, and the White House faces other legal issues and potential resistance from Congress.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c...


Hey, Brett, piss or get off the pot.  Really.

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by: HappyinVT @ Tue Dec 15, 2009 at 18:34:36 PM CST

A bit more information (2.00 / 2)

On a conference call just now, senior administration officials provided some details about their plan for detaining Guantanamo detainees at Illinois' Thomson Correction Center. The facility will be for a "limited number" of detainees, a senior administration official told reporters, for those "who would face trial [in] military commissions." A different official clarified that "I think the plan would be to hold the military commissions at Thomson."

But Thomson will not be a way station for out-processing Guantanamo detainees back to their home countries. Nor will it house detainees who will face prosecutions in federal court - those detainees will be transferred the jurisdictions trying them. Finally, a senior administration official said that while "notionally" it could house detainees for indefinite or preventive detention - the so-called "Fifth Category" of detainees who the administration contends cannot be tried in any forum nor responsibly released - the administration has not yet identified any detainees who fall into that category. Accordingly, neither official told reporters how many detainees at Guantanamo it had identified for transfer to Thomson, saying the process of review remains ongoing.

http://washingtonindependent.c...

Hey, Brett, piss or get off the pot.  Really.

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by: HappyinVT @ Wed Dec 16, 2009 at 19:50:18 PM CST

Whatevs (2.00 / 1)

I'm sure that there was no outcry to transfer Timothy McVeigh to Gitmo, even though he was a domestic terrorist who arguably was "at war" with the U.S.  This is probably just one of those issues that will disappear after the prisoners are transferred, at which point it will become obvious that the world didn't explode.

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by: rfahey22 @ Thu Dec 17, 2009 at 14:07:25 PM CST

Not so fast. (2.00 / 1)

Representative John Boehner said at least at least two pieces of legislation would have to go through Congress before the U.S. government can move any of the detainees to an Illinois prison -- and he doubted either bill would pass.

"I wouldn't want to bet on when those two pieces of legislation will pass, if ever," Boehner told reporters.

The Democrats have a majority in both houses of Congress, but lawmakers in both parties are nervous about President Barack Obama's pledge to close the prison camp at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba that houses foreign terrorism suspects.

This week the administration said it planned to buy an Illinois prison and move some Guantanamo detainees there.

But current U.S. law bars Guantanamo detainees from being brought onto U.S. soil, unless they are going to be prosecuted. Boehner suggested that provision would need to be changed...

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c...

Hey, Brett, piss or get off the pot.  Really.

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by: HappyinVT @ Thu Dec 17, 2009 at 20:03:22 PM CST