Stand and Deliver

by: Shaun Appleby

Mon Mar 08, 2010 at 18:42:38 PM EST


Bookmark and Share

Since the arguably tepid advocacy for health care reform in Obama's State of the Union address the President's resolve to stake his political fortunes, and by implication those of his majority legislators, on the passage of a health care reform bill has become clearly evident.  And even in that speech his message to his Congressional party was unequivocal, "To Democrats, I would remind you that we still have the largest majority in decades, and the people expect us to solve some problems, not run for the hills."

After the tortuous ebb and flow of national debate and painful legislative horse-trading of the past nine months we have reached a point of no return for Obama's administration, our Congressional majorities and our political prospects in the upcoming 2010 midterm elections.  Either the bill passes or fails.  Obama gets it:


GLENSIDE, Pa. - President Obama challenged wavering members of his own party on Monday not to give in to their political fears about supporting health care legislation, asserting that the urgency of getting a bill through Congress should trump any concern about the consequences for Democrats in November.

President Barack Obama told a crowd of students at Arcadia University, in Glenside, Pa. on Monday that there should be an "up or down vote on health care."

In a high-octane appearance that harked back to his "Yes we Can" campaign days, Mr. Obama jettisoned the professorial demeanor that has cloaked many of his public pronouncements on the issue, instead making an emotional pitch for public support as he tries to push the legislation through a final series of votes in Congress in the next several weeks.

Helene Cooper - Obama Warns Democrats of Urgency of Health Bill NYT 8 Mar 10

President Obama's willingness to make an all or nothing bet on this legislative reform has leveraged Congressional Democrats into a position where they soon must consider Benjamin Franklin's sage advice, "We must all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang seperately."

Shaun Appleby :: Stand and Deliver
And the prospects are daunting.  There is no clear indication that Democrats can muster the numbers in the House in the next few weeks:


To prevent a Republican filibuster in the Senate, Democrats are planning to include the final revisions to the health care bill in a budget reconciliation measure, which can be adopted by a simple majority in both chambers.

But first, House Democrats must approve the Senate's health care bill, originally adopted Dec. 24. This is where the legislative heavy lifting will take place.

Many rank-and-file House Democrats are deeply uneasy. They disliked the Senate bill on both policy and political grounds.

David M Herszenhorn - A Handy Road Map for the Final Weeks NYT 8 Mar 10

In an effort to rekindle public support for this legislation the Obama White House has taken unprecedented steps in recent weeks, convening a publicly televised 'bipartisan' summit and drafting a straight-forward summary of the essential policy of health care reform he is advocating.  The summit failed to elicit bipartisan support, as expected, but it cleared a political roadblock in the path of using reconciliation to amend the existing Senate bill.  Everyone can see that Republicans are committed to obstructionism as a political strategy.  Since then Obama has commenced stumping around the country at televised town-hall events in support of this legislation.  

So how does public opinion stack up on this signature Democratic legislation?  Not so good, apparently:

PRINCETON, NJ -- Americans are skeptical that lawmakers will agree on a new healthcare bill at Thursday's bipartisan healthcare summit in Washington, D.C. If an agreement is not reached, Americans by a 49% to 42% margin oppose rather than favor Congress passing a healthcare bill similar to the one proposed by President Obama and Democrats in the House and Senate. By a larger 52% to 39% margin, Americans also oppose the Democrats in the Senate using a reconciliation procedure to avoid a possible Republican filibuster and pass a bill by a simple majority vote.

The poll shows that American public opinion tilts against this option.

Not only are 49% of Americans opposed to passing a bill similar to the one proposed by Obama and the Democrats in the House and Senate, compared with 42% in favor, those "strongly" opposed outnumber those "strongly" in favor by 23% to 11%.

A follow-up question asked specifically about the use of a parliamentary procedure that would allow the Democratic leaders to avoid a Republican filibuster. Again, Americans are opposed by a slightly larger, 52% to 39% margin, and those opposed are more likely to feel strongly about their opinion than those in favor, 25% to 11%.

The survey question defines the legislation in question as being similar to that proposed by President Obama and the Democrats in the House and Senate.

Frank Newport - Americans Tilt Against Democrats' Plans if Summit Fails Gallup 25 Feb 10

Some of the opposition is no doubt due to Republican narratives, 'death panels' and 'socialism,' not to mention frustration with legislators and the sausage-making demonstration provided by the Democratic majorities in both houses over the past year.  But nevertheless a core question must be asked:


Which would you rather take into the midterm elections?  The President/Congress that succeeded where Clinton, Truman, etc had failed in the past by passing healthcare reform - but without the support of a majority of the population - or divided, incompetent, failure?  Now I'm not saying that the fate of this bill will significantly impact who controls the House or Senate after the 2010 elections one way or another, but it seems to me that if it did, then not passing your most meaningful domestic policy objective would ultimately be more damaging to your political prospects then passing it with the support of only 40% of the country.

Joshua Tucker - What's Worse Politically? Passing a Bill ... or Looking Weak and Incompetent? The Monkey Cage 1 Mar 10

How is it that Democrats seem to be in a lose-lose situation on this policy issue?  The rationale for reforming health insurance is sound, we are in an unsustainable cycle of rising costs and sharp premium increases in an almost monopolistic marketplace.  Something clearly must be done but the political climate, for a variety of reasons, is toxic and the militancy, not to mention the outright misrepresentation, of the opposition framing of this legislation has had an impact on the attitude, and apprehension, of the American public.

Nevertheless, at this point there is diminishing wiggle-room for reluctant Democrats and Obama has come down on the side of daring to win and letting the chips fall where they may.  There are arguably even harsher assessments of the potential failure of the Democratic majorities in both houses which might emerge:


In my view, at this point, you cannot blame the president if this bill fails to pass. And you cannot even blame the Republicans, although they will do all they can to bugger up the reconciliation process. In the end, this is about whether the Democratic Party can govern, whether it is a functioning political party, or whether it deserves to die. If it had one tenth of the discipline of the GOP, this would not be a question. But frankly, if it cannot pass this bill after the last election with this president at this moment, then it should be put out of its misery.

Andrew Sullivan - Would You Rather? The Atlantic 7 Mar 10

Are Democrats going to deliver or not?  The ethos of our party will be significantly altered in either case, at least for the remainder of the current election cycle if not beyond.  And short-term electoral considerations notwithstanding it seems we have little choice.  Pass.  The.  Bill.

[Update]  "I'm kind of fired up," Obama said at the beginning of his remarks:


"Let's seize reform. It's within our grasp," the president implored his audience at Arcadia University, the first outside-the-Beltway appearance since he vowed last week to do everything in his power to push his health care plan into law.

The president's pitch was part denunciation of insurance companies - "they continue to ration care on the basis of who's sick and who's healthy," he said - and part criticism of his Republican critics. "You had 10 years. What happened? What were you doing?" he taunted members of a party that held the White House for eight years and control of Congress for a dozen.

Julie Pace and David Espo - Obama Health Care Push: Back To His Grassroots AP via Huffington Post 8 Mar 10

"So I need you to knock on doors. Talk to your neighbors. Pick up the phone," he urged them.  Yeah, and ring you're Democratic representatives.  Man, what a party.

Tags: (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email

Bookmark and Share
Stand and Deliver | 57 comments
I watched the president's speech this afternoon. (2.00 / 3)
It was full-on campaign mode.  The crowd was younger (no duh! given that it was at Arcadia University) and they were pretty fired up.  The president was fired up, too.  He was quite comfortable; obviously in his element and loving it.

I don't know what, if any, strategy has been in play from last January until this January.  I don't know if the administration got into the White House and saw what a giant clusterf*ck the previous administration left behind.  Or, Obama and Co misread how purely obstructionist some of his former colleagues were going to be (including some Dems).  I do not buy that this is some new Plouffe-inspired strategy; I'm pretty sure David could have picked up the phone at any time and called either Axelrod or Obama and said, "Dudes, you're screwing this up royally.  Here's what you need to do."  But, anyway, whatever happened in the last year, the president has (finally) come out swinging.

There was one thing the president didn't say that I wish he had; after he talked about the best ideas of the Republicans that were incorporated I was exhorting him to point out that no Republicans would commit to voting for the bill.  I think he could have driven home how the Republicans were not looking for any meaningful compromise but really a "do it our way or else."

Apparently, he also told the progressive caucus last week that he sees this as only the first bill, something to build upon, FWIW.

Hey, Brett, piss or get off the pot.  Really.


The Shift Since January... (2.00 / 2)
And the reappearence of David Plouffe seem to be coincident but who knows?  My point is that Congressional Democrats now have to fish or cut bait.  I admire Obama's apparent unconcern about leaving them no place to hide, really.  He's probably as frustrated as the rest of us by now.

[ Parent ]
If (2.00 / 3)
Stupid Stupak and his gang of 12-13 quit obsessing over what goes on in women's wombs and Kucinich figures out we aren't going to get single payer this year we might be good-to-go.

I kind of wish Obama would go to some of the districts/states of the "no" votes and call folks out.

Hey, Brett, piss or get off the pot.  Really.


[ Parent ]
Perhaps... (2.00 / 2)
They should sic 'Socialist' Sanders on Kucinich:


At a White House meeting Thursday, President Obama apprised Kucinich of a measure in the Senate health care bill - authored by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) - that allow individual states to create single payer systems several years down the line.  Kucinich was said to be interested in the provision.

Brian Beutler - Leaning No: Will Kucinich Become The Ralph Nader Of Health Care Reform? TPM 8 Mar 10

I thought the Nader comparison a bit harsh, frankly, but a 'no' vote is a 'no' vote.


[ Parent ]
And Even Stupak... (2.00 / 3)
Is sounding, well, reasonable:


"I'm more optimistic than I was a week ago," Stupak said in an interview between meetings with constituents in his northern Michigan district. He was hosting a town hall meeting Monday night at a local high school.

"The president says he doesn't want to expand or restrict current law [on abortion]. Neither do I," Stupak said. "That's never been our position. So is there some language that we can agree on that hits both points - we don't restrict, we don't expand abortion rights? I think we can get there."

John Flescher - Stupak: Health bill abortion fight can be resolved AP via TPM 8 Mar 10

That's a far cry from last week's "nothing had changed and he didn't think the House leaders had the votes to pass the bill."


[ Parent ]
I wonder if Stupak has the votes he thinks he does. (2.00 / 3)
How about he remembers the Hyde Amendment and takes out any reference to abortion, period.

Hey, Brett, piss or get off the pot.  Really.

[ Parent ]
Stupak totally frustrates me (2.00 / 4)
especially since he is from Michigan. I have quite a few relatives that live in his district. They like him. I do too, except for his adamant stance on abortion. The other day, I saw a mention of his voting record. He votes with the party 96% of the time. That's a good Dem. Unfortunately, from my point of view, he's a strict Catholic and rabidly anti-abortion.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis


[ Parent ]
He lives at C Street. (2.00 / 4)
Catholic on the outside, evangelical on the inside.  I consider anyone associated with the Family to be part of a sleeper cell aimed at total control of the world in Jesus' name.

But then that's just me.


[ Parent ]
Ye Gods... (2.00 / 3)
That's alarming.  I tend to agree about the Family crowd.  Very, very scary stuff.

[ Parent ]
FWIW, he moved out last year apparently. (2.00 / 3)
Although he did downplay his role in the Family if Jeff Sharlet is to be believed (and I see no reason not to).

Hey, Brett, piss or get off the pot.  Really.

[ Parent ]
He may have moved out but (0.00 / 0)
the Family doesn't invite just anybody to partake of their largess.  He has that "nobody home" look in his eyes of the other fundies.  I wouldn't trust him.

[ Parent ]
test test (0.00 / 0)
ignore this comment

[ Parent ]
Thanks, Chris (0.00 / 0)
All sorted.  Reset the wireless router/ADSL modem.  Go figure.  Windows 7 is great but IP6 is giving my old router headaches, it seems.

[ Parent ]
Whoops... (0.00 / 0)
Stupak has a primary challenger:


How serious a candidate is [Connie Saltonstall, a former commissioner in Charlevoix County]? Some of the many calls she's fielded today, Saltonstall told me, have come from "national groups" expressing a willingness to help her become the Bill Halter of the Upper Peninsula. She wouldn't name the groups, or how serious the talks have been, but it's not a stretch to see her candidacy appealing to the same dissatisfied progressive groups pouring millions into Halter's campaign in Arkansas.

Evan McMorris-Santoro - Stupak Gets A Primary Challenge From The Left TPM 9 Mar 10

There ya' go.


[ Parent ]
TPM... (2.00 / 2)
Seems to think so.  Who knows?  He is the most vocal proponent of a single-issue faction so if he comes around all the better.  A vote is a vote at this point.

[ Parent ]
Give the man his due, he has principles. (2.00 / 2)
He votes with his party 96% of the time and lives on c-street. Seems that would take a little courage. Everyone who is anti-abortion or attends church is not advocating a theocracy. That view is simplistic and tiresome imho.
I had thought he was pimping for attention and proably a blue dog, but voting dem 96% of the time seems to put him in a different light.

[ Parent ]
Looking at (2.00 / 1)
what has happened with Evan Bayh and Eric Massa over the last few weeks, can anyone honestly say the President has ANY influence AT ALL with Congress?

In the end if Congress doesn't deliver, the President is on his own and is probably better off with a Republican Congress at this point. Nothing will get done, but at least he can fight them and it wouldn't make the Democrats looks so damn divided and incompetent. He's the only one left in the party who looks competent. We might be better off with HIM being the party at this point and letting Congressional Dems rebuild for 2012 or 2016.

I wonder if what we're seeing is unintended consequences of the Presidential primary. The party was so divided that while it united long enough to elect a President, large swaths of the party have no loyalty to him.


[ Parent ]
Do You Really Think So? (2.00 / 1)
I mean, your thesis of a divided Democratic Party is hard to argue against but as far as Bayh and Massa are concerned there have been publicly mooted alternate explanations for both outcomes which have a Rahm-like Machievellian quality about them.  Jury's still out with me.  I am increasingly sympathetic to Speaker Pelosi's steady performance though it is hard to gauge accurately.  Similarly it seems the selection of Biden as Vice President should have had some legislative benefits from time-to-time but perhaps we're just not seeing behind the curtain.  Reid is an enigma to me.  I just don't get him.

As for Congressional Democrats, sink or swim seems to be the prescription.  If we get past this with a win we'll all be pretty unlikely to look back.


[ Parent ]
Well the problem from my POV (2.00 / 3)
is that everybody in the caucus has a different reason for being skeptical of healthcare reform. Who wants a public option, who doesn't, who wants abortion funding to be banned, who doesn't, etc.

It's hard to try to unite a caucus of 256 different opinions in one body and 59 in the other under one bill in a short amount of time.

Now if the President had any control over the party, then yeah, it might be possible, but it's increasingly clear (and I always suspected) for many in Congress, the last thing on their mind is what their President wants.  


[ Parent ]
No Doubt (2.00 / 3)
And Obama spent the better part of last year waiting for them to sort it out among themselves.  To no bloody avail.  And it was pretty clear that a fair few of them just didn't want to vote, 'yes' or 'no,' because they just didn't want to face any criticism in their constiuencies one way or the other.  They just wanted the whole issue to go away, which it almost has in the course of this exercise.

But now, it seems, the White House has decided to call their bluff, so to speak, and stampede them into a corral from which their are only two exits, a 'yes' vote or a 'no' vote.  A vote of 'nothing to do with me' is no longer an option.  And I'm guessing more of them are going to prefer to pass something than appear to be a pack of incompetent, disloyal, Republican-fearing idiots.

As a political tactic it has a certain elegant symmetry.  Fearless leader trumps cowardly Congressional cohort.  And things like the primary challenge to Senator Blanche Lincoln don't hurt either.  In spite of Obama's endorsement I'm guessing that has caused a few chuckles in the West Wing.  Go the netroots, eh?


[ Parent ]
The world is watching. (2.00 / 2)
I'm expecting the Dems to deliver.  If they don't, I have to echo what will be the majority sentiment:

"ineffective wankers".

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon


pass HCR, pass HCR, pass HCR (2.00 / 5)
if the country gets nothing of benefit from it apart from this, it will be worth the effort anyway:

Hate radio host Rush Limbaugh has been one of health care reform's most vociferous opponents, warning that "[h]uman beings will die earlier than normal" under the "freedom killing" and "life threatening" plan, and calling for it to be "aborted." Yesterday, Limbaugh put his money where his mouth is, saying that if health care passes and all his fears are realized, he'll leave the country:

CALLER: If the health care bill passes, where would you go for health care yourself? And the second part of that is, what would happen to the doctors, do they have to participate in the federal program, or could they opt out of it? [...]

LIMBAUGH: My guess in even in Canada and even in the UK, doctors have opted out. And once they've opted, they can't see anybody Medicare, Medicaid, or what will become the exchanges. They have to have a clientele of private patients that will pay them a retainer and it'll be a very small practice. I don't know if that's been outlawed in the Senate bill. I don't know. I'll just tell you this, if this passes and it's five years from now and all that stuff gets implemented - I am leaving the country. I'll go to Costa Rica.


Someone really should warn Costa Rica.

It's a terrible thing to look over your shoulder when you are trying to lead, and find no one there. -Franklin Roosevelt


LOL! (2.00 / 5)
Costa Rica has a great universal health care system. Health insurance is a government monopoly. I'd love to have their system. It gets better results than ours. Costs to citizens are limited to 10%-11% of their income.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis


[ Parent ]
I found this about Costa Rica's health care system. (2.00 / 5)
The attention to health has brought this middle-wealth country's health indicators in line with those of OECD countries.[viii]  In 2001 the average life expectancy at birth in Costa Rica was 76.6 years.[ix]  In 2000, 97% of births were attended by skilled professionals, 89% of the pregnant women were given prenatal care, and 93% of children under 1 had health insurance.[x]  From 1990 to 2000 life expectancy increased by 0.8 years, the fertility rate dropped, and the population grew due to an influx of Nicaraguan immigrants.[xi]  In 2000 there were 16 physicians and 3.2 nurses per 10,000 population.[xii]  In 1999 there were 12,000 people living with HIV/AIDS, giving an adult prevalence rate of 0.54%.[xiii]  However, Costa is the only Central American country to provide antiretroviral treatment to all patients through its social security system.[xiv]  The leading causes of death were cardiovascular disease and neoplasms, which is comparable to many OECD countries.[xv]  Spending on health care has increased steadily over recent years, and in 2000 it composed 9% of the national GDP.[xvi]

These outcomes are the result of one of the world's most successful "universal" health care systems.  "Universality" in the Costa Rican system means that 100% of the population is given equal comprehensive public health insurance with equal access to services.



"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis


[ Parent ]
Ironically... (2.00 / 1)
Most countries with universal single-payer health care  support thriving, relatively inexpensive and totally private health care industries which would be exactly Rush's cup of tea.  I don't think most conservatives realise that their health care 'Promised Land' is most likely to be available in a nation with a 'socialist' health care system.

[ Parent ]
I hate to say it... (2.00 / 4)
...and I hope I don't have to explain to anyone here how I think the US constitution is a precious ornament of all nations, especially democratic ones....

But something appears broken in American democracy.

How can a minority of Senators block major legislation like this?

And how can important house representatives defy the democratic mandate of the election, and vote against the bill, because it's not interventionist or too interventionist for their taste?

This is undemocratic, and unrepresentative. It allows obstructionism and inertia to become the main forces in US political life, not to mention the role of money, lobbying and pork barrel pay outs to become the norm.

Not so long ago - in fact only 17 months ago - Americans voted with a clear unequivocal mandate for change, and particularly reform of the healthcare system.

So some polls find more or less against public options. Some polls find more or less against HCR as it stands.

For godsake, you're the world's leading representative democracy. You don't work by plebiscites and constant random sampling of small portions of the population. You are the model of democracy the world looks up to. Leadership is no good without some residual notions of solidarity, loyalty, and giving a party the chance to make some changes while it is in office.

This is much more worrying moment for me than Bush and all his tawdry reactionary ways. This is the chance for the democrats to prove they are incapable of government, and that there is no way other than increasingly shrill versions of republican ideological opportunism combined with electoral efficiency.

This is the moment to rally round, and find out what democrat really means, rather than pass the buck for failure...

An all too common theme already appearing on a lot of US blogs.  

Moose Juice; debate without hate


Interesting Comment (2.00 / 1)
And an entrée to an important discussion.  What "appears broken in American democracy?"  For some this is a process issue, and suggestions of revising the cloture rules, which we have tinkered with in the past, have been mooted.

Another consideration it the significantly different ethos of the two respective parties.  Democrats had no scruples voting with the Bush administration for the PATRIOT USA act or the AUMF in Iraq for example.  And it is further arguable that as the Republican Party loses ground, as in 2006, or withdraws into a narrower ideological redoubt, as they seem to be doing now, that districts and states which have 'moderate' constituencies will elect Democrats with more conservative agendas than the party as a whole.  This raises the point about the possible influence of the 'fifty-state' strategy in making it more difficult for Democrats to caucus effectively on some progressive or reform issues.

But I think it is our prohibitively expensive campaigns and the necessity of financing them with massive contributions which is where the rot has set in.  Not to mention the vast industry of corporate and special interest lobbying.  This skews the political discourse.  Obama addressed this in his campaign and has attempted some limited reforms but these institutions are deeply established in modern American politics.  The recent Citizens United Supreme Court ruling just makes it worse by another order of magnitude.  If American elections were funded differently, perhaps even by public monies, and the rules regarding lobbyist influences were stricter or more uniformly enforced we would be a lot closer to the democratic principles intended by the framers of the Constitution.

We are awash with issue-oriented money and access to legislators which inevitably gives the corporate sector and the wealthy disproportionate influence on political outcomes.  The apparent bias of the media against progressive reform probably falls into the same category.


[ Parent ]
I think that's the synergy (2.00 / 1)
The checks and balances were created to prevent revolutionary or reactionary sudden change.

However, you founding fathers, didn't think that politicians could effectively enrich themselves around gridlock. That seems to be the pattern that I've seen emerge over the last 30 years. The more balanced congress is, the more the presidential veto counters congress, or vice versa, the more traction there is for non ideological corporate lobbying. Fix this bit of legislation, and I'll pay your staff, line your pocket, sponsor your next campaign

Gridlock and lobbying go well together. The cogs mesh and seize up. Money becomes the prime lubricant.

But nothing about this suits a country fighting two wars, coming out of the biggest recession in 60 years, with a massive (and as yet unrealised) overhang of public and private debt. Nothing about it suits a President who knows he needs to take on the vested interests who have led to this pretty pass.

And having your left flank down arms and abandon you in the midst of this impossible battle must be the last thing you need.  

Moose Juice; debate without hate


[ Parent ]
Exactly (0.00 / 0)
And in some ways Obama anticipated this with his campaign pitch and strategy.  The only way to break this cycle is to go back to the people and get them engaged.  Corporations and lobbyists have money but not votes.

But now that Obama's administration is in government that kind of populist message is more difficult to promote and is arguably inappropriate for an executive representing the interests of all citizens.  It is up to the legislature to carry the ball and they clearly are incapable of getting the message across.

This leaves are popular culture oriented media free to muddy the water with whatever sound-bite is the toxic controversy du jour and likely to penetrate the short attention span of our citizens for the sake of their ratings.

We really need to find a way to get our messages through without cross-talk or requiring the President to weigh in on each and every partisan issue.


[ Parent ]
One problem with our system (2.00 / 2)
is that unlike private industry we don't make people who work in government or take elected office sign non-compete contracts. A legislator, legislative aide, or public service employee should be barred from working in any industry that relates to their government post for 5 years after leaving government service. No more generals going to work for Raytheon. No more treasury officials going to Goldman Sachs.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis


[ Parent ]
No Argument There (2.00 / 2)
And Obama did have a go, almost the first thing he did:


Obama's new lobbying rules will not only ban aides from trying to influence the administration when they leave his staff. Those already hired will be banned from working on matters they have previously lobbied on, or to approach agencies that they once targeted.

The rules also ban lobbyists from giving gifts of any size to any member of his administration. It wasn't immediately clear whether the ban would include the traditional "previous relationships" clause, allowing gifts from friends or associates with which an employee comes in with strong ties.

The new rules also require that anyone who leaves his administration is not allowed to try to influence former friends and colleagues for at least two years. Obama is requiring all staff to attend to an ethics briefing like one he said he attended last week.

Obama freezes staff pay, limits lobbyists The Vindicator 21 Jan 09

But frankly, those were voluntary rules which were established by the administration within the West Wing alone.  And they have been bent since.  The problem is systemic and elected office or appointment seems merely a revolving door to the lobbyist industry or financial sector.  If this is 'business as usual' it genuinely sucks.


[ Parent ]
I think the big problem (2.00 / 4)
is that people still see us as a democracy. We are not and never been a true democracy.

If we were truly a democracy, there wouldn't be a Senate, or if it did exist, it would be as powerful as the House of Lords or the Bundesrat.

Instead, the Senate is the most powerful body in the government, more powerful than the President or the House and the judiciary. The Senate is NOT a democratic institution. It does NOT represent the people, it represents the states. The people of Wyoming, Alaska and Vermont yield much more power than the people of California, New York or Texas, because they are equally represented in the Senate.

We have tried to rectify this situation over time...until 1912, the Senators weren't even popularly elected, chosen instead by the state legislatures.

But as long as the Senate exists, or is more powerful than the House, the United States does not qualify as a true democracy...it is a federal republic.

This has worked and has allowed us to function as a defacto democracy for 200 years because nobody dared abuse the ridiculous rules of the Senate, but it was bound to happen and it has. The opposition party has discovered the long known secret of how to shut down government and make it ineffective. No one dared do it before, because the idea of turning the country into an ungovernable mess was just too much for any true patriot, true American, to consider.

But the Republican Party nowadays are not true patriots. They do not love America unless it yields to their wishes. They are selfish and shameless.  


[ Parent ]
Yes, this has been a lesson for me (2.00 / 1)
I am a little bit stunned at the powers of your upper house to block legislation. And even more so at the opportunism of the republicans. They are actually undermining the constitution, as surely as Cheney did with his executive powers.

Meanwhile, much of the left wants to Obama to behave in the same unconstitutional way as the republicans.

What did Nietzsche say:

"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you."


Moose Juice; debate without hate

[ Parent ]
My argument to them (2.00 / 2)
is exactly what I told the Republicans during the Bush Administration when they'd try to convice me the best thing to do was dump parts of the Constitution to keep us from getting killed.

That our country is more than just a giant rock nestled between two oceans, or 300 million people who for some reason or another ended up living on said rock...it's the ideas and institutions we created at the end of the 18th Century, it's the rights, freedoms and guidelines our ancestors laid out and it's the improvements we made to those stipulations over time. If we dump them, then what are our men and women overseas defending? They're not defending the United States, we've destroyed the United States...I guess they're defending the lives of the people who live on that piece of rock, but that's about it.

That goes back to my point about Republicans being shameless and selfish...it's not about the country, if it were they'd be defending the ideas and beliefs the country was founded on, it's about THEM, it's about protecting their lives, who gives a shit about anyone else? and they hide their selfishness by claiming they're defending the country (and God)

I don't know what the best way out of this is.


[ Parent ]
As to your question... (2.00 / 2)
I don't know what the best way out of this is.

I would say, given that he's got a background in constitutional law, and seems to err on the side of constitutional conservatism combined with personal activism, your president is pretty well placed to negotiate these deadly waters.  

Moose Juice; debate without hate


[ Parent ]
Constitutional Conservatism... (2.00 / 1)
With a little stirring of the pot where 'activist' Supreme Court justices are concerned.  Heh.

[ Parent ]
Did you see where Roberts is still ticked about the SOTU smack? (2.00 / 2)


Hey, Brett, piss or get off the pot.  Really.

[ Parent ]
Yeah... (2.00 / 2)
And then Reid let him have it:


As for Chief Justice John Roberts, the majority leader castigated him as being out of touch and completely detached from political reality.

"Do you think John Roberts knows or cares how people get elected?" he said, referring to the role the chief justice played in crafting the court's Citizens United decision.

Insisting that the court was engaged in "activism" for allowing corporations to spend unlimited amounts of money on congressional campaigns, the Nevada Democrat insisted that the time had come to stop appointing judges to the bench.

"I think we've had enough of them," he said. "I think what we need are people on that bench who have been legislators, people who are lawyers, people who are academics. You look at our Supreme Court and all these people, all they know is working with people in black robes. We have got to change that."

Sam Stein - Harry Reid Slams Supreme Court Justices ... For Campaign Finance Decision Huffington Post 10 Mar 10

Black robes, eh?  Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!  Ouch.  What has Harry got to lose?


[ Parent ]
I'm getting optimistic as all hell. (2.00 / 3)
I'll go out on the limb and say that:

o  this year is going to get better and better in general as it goes on,

o  HCR is about to pass proving that Obama has been right all along, (and doing it, as mentioned above, by following the rules the Founders intended won't be lost on everyone)

o the economy is going to sail forward into clear stability and growth

o  the US is going to continue to do better than most countries economically

o  Iran and Afghanistan will continue to improve, with large numbers of troops out of Iraq by October

o  the 'just say no' of the GOP and the extremes of the Tea Party will look less attractive and gain more public ridicule month-by-month all year.  By late summer we will all remember how screwed up the GOP was in Now 2008 and realize that it really hasn't taken a turn for the better since.

The US dollar is up, Americans have more in savings on average than ever, tech companies are cranking up hiring and Bev Perdue here in NC just said she wants to restore the half percentage cut in state workers' pay.  Americans don't like being gloomy for a long time, and the Beckian Death-Knell approach has already peaked in popularity.  The GOP will not take back the House in Nov, and most likely not the Senate either.

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon


[ Parent ]
I think you're right... (2.00 / 1)
But with one caveat. We won't return to the kind of leveraged growth of the last three decades. People of our age, used to asset price inflation (i.e. house prices) will have to wake up and smell the Chinese financed coffee. It will be tough. But better for our kids who, rather than waiting for us to die to afford somewhere to live, may be able to get on a more reasonable property ladder - and thus avoid all those Generation X resentments about the feather linings of the baby boomers.

But one thing I don't feel we've fully discussed: the death of Reagonomics. The whole Greenspan neoliberal idea of deregulation and derivative speculation is over. We're going to have to adjust to this new paradigm. And review our notions of growth.

To be honest, with the exception of the dot com and high tech sectors, most American manufacturing (like the UK) has devolved out to China, which is becoming, like Britain in the 19th century, the workshop of the world.

I think credit replaced consumerism as the modus vivendi of the 90s to noughties. We shall not see that time return.  

Moose Juice; debate without hate


[ Parent ]
It's all good, imho. (2.00 / 1)
Artificially leveraged growth isn't a great thing.  The world is a much richer market than it was in previous decades so there is more water to fish in, capitalism loves breadth of opportunity.

Fine manufacturing still has a place, but rough-and-dirty can be done anywhere.  Britain still produces Rolls Royce for example (amazing operation there, saw a documentary on the manufacturing process recently) and Germany has no lack of opportunity to make all the tightly built shit they're known for.  Some types of large items might still be best made in-country (windmills, etc) and there will I suppose always be niches, but you are right in general.  China, however, will not be able to hold onto that title forever, no more than Japan did (they lost to Korea in the end, who lost to China).  Africa has an opportunity in coming decades to process a lot of cash by building a manufacturing base as part of the transition out of continental poverty.  At some point (40-60 years?) when there just isn't anywhere large left in long-term poverty all that cheap-labor differential will be gone, anyway.

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon


[ Parent ]
Artificially leveraged growth... (2.00 / 1)
...has been a curse for entrepreneurs. Just talk to anyone who has to deal with the investment banks and short term opportunism of the stock market.

I think we're facing a massive problem of agency. Not only are stock holders only dimly connected to the companies whose shares they hold, the auditors, private equity firms and hedge funds constitute a modal monopoly on the way mergers and acquisitions happen. The credit crunch was just one example of what happens when monopolies and oligopolies start reinforcing each other. There is still a crisis to come in many over leveraged businesses, especially commercial property.

This is not about capitalism per se, and certainly not about enterprise and innovation: it's becoming clear to me, as I've said before, that western corporations are increasingly becoming like the estates of absentee landlords. There's asset plundering or complex debt calculations, but the people who hold the money and those who make the products and deliver the services, are becoming increasingly estranged from each other.

In such circumstances, the real growth happens in countries which don't allow such remote rentier practices. China is flourishing in manufacturing now. How long before it moves into high tech and software?

China also plans ahead, in a way inconceivable to most Western states. It's currently building the infrastructure and transport for over twenty cities with populations over 5 million.

Where does our current financial system allow for that level of foresight?  

Moose Juice; debate without hate


[ Parent ]
China has it's own thing going for it's own complex reasons, (2.00 / 1)
we won't "beat" them by being better and what they are better at to start with (central planning and the Long View).  America has it's own strengths and needs to run with those.

On that other note you raise, there is a lot of visibility to be gained in American investing.  The Tech Bubble of 2000 was a lesson for me, because everyone wanted to ask me how they should invest without actually understanding the specific companies and the complex dynamics involved.  While I can see the wisdom of investing long-term in broad industries, there is no way someone can tell you how to invest with specificity and catch the amazing growth of a company with the right things in the right space at the right time.  Similarly with some of these abstract financial instruments: when something is so far removed from the fundamentals it is based on I find it hard to believe that there is a logical way to decide on it's value.

Because the failure of the financial system did (much much) more damage to the US than bin Laden, I don't think for a moment that it will escape the attention of the kinds of regulation that sort some of that out.

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon


[ Parent ]
Isn't It About Capitalism? (2.00 / 1)
When futures trades in physical crude increase astronomically and petrol prices suddenly inflate at the bowser?  In the short years leading up to the credit crash of 2008 the average number of times a supertanker cargo changed hands en route from the Gulf went from roughly three to forty-two.  It was probably owned by half the retirement funds in the Western world for a few minutes at one time or another.

That's not supply and demand, really, that's just opportunism.  And, ironically, the small investor benefactors poured their profits back into the system every time they filled up their tanks while the institutional promoters banked the transaction fees.  If that's capitalism it is clearly unsustainable.


[ Parent ]
It's a particular kind of capitalism.... (2.00 / 2)
...light years away from what Adam Smith described, though no doubt prevalent event 200 years ago in things like the South Sea Bubble.

The trading principles themselves are not bad, but as you poit out so graphically with oil futures, the ability to make trades with ridiculous lending to asset ratios. To buy a million dollars of crude you only need something like 1000 dollars deposit.

Without tampering with the basics of the market mechanism, the   hyperreal forms of money available in the credit markets should be more firmly regulated.  

Moose Juice; debate without hate


[ Parent ]
I'm practicing my own brand of capitalism today. (2.00 / 2)
I don't usually buy lottery tickets, but I couldn't resist buying a couple of powerball tickets last night. The prize is up to $170 million. I promise to fund the Moose in perpetuity if I win.  

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis


[ Parent ]
Well, Credit... (2.00 / 1)
And intellectual property.  The new feudalism.

[ Parent ]
Absolutely Agree (2.00 / 2)
We're suddenly on a winner.  And the Republicans have no-one to blame but themselves.  In a way, letting them have their wild night out has played right into a very sober strategy.  With a little luck, they're screwed:


Obama's contention all along has been that it is better to talk, debate, listen.  The GOP contention has been that it is better to oppose, vilify, demagogue.  This is the same GOP playbook that has worked again and again and again.  Despite the crushing losses of 2006 and 2008, still the machinery continues the drumbeat for total war.

If Obama outlasts them - if he takes every punch and emerges victorious - then two key things will happen.

First, the voices on the right advocating opposition will have to account for their failing.  Second, Obama will gain more leeway and tolerance from the middle-of-the-road voter, further strengthening his hand.

Anonymous poster via Andrew Sullivan - Has The GOP Peaked Too Soon? The Atlantic 10 Mar 10

Yowzah!  If... If... We get the health care reform bill passed.


[ Parent ]
The GOP peaked entirely too soon. (2.00 / 1)
Which isn't the least surprising, they've had all the maturity and control of a teenage boy sine the Great Implosion of 2008.  

Look who has been "in charge" all along, anyway.  Michael Steele?  Are you shitting me?  Rush/Glenn/Sarah?  That's not a champion chess team, that's the planning committee for a drunken panty raid which fails spectacularly.  You think, maybe, that Obama/Dean/Rahm/the Clintons/Plouffe and the rest of the team who scorched the GOP earth a few months ago and currently run the freaking world are capable of forecasting and exploiting the staggering lurches of this party of fools?  

Ya' think?

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon


[ Parent ]
Yeah... (2.00 / 1)
Well more by accident than design, given a profound economic meltdown and so forth.  But this is where strategy trumps rhetoric and policy wins.  Nobody thought Obama was gonna' win either, least of all Mark Penn.

[ Parent ]
I dunno, the definition of being qualified to win these games (2.00 / 1)
include the ability to foresee as much as possible and adapt to whatever happens.  That's why those approaches work all the time in highly chaotic competitions like battle.  Gear aside, the reason the US military always wins every battle (wars are different, those are political) against Saddam/Taliban/... is that they plan real well and adapt even better.  

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon

[ Parent ]
Who Dares Wins (2.00 / 1)
It's simply a matter of the 'firstest with the mostest.'  And there have been plenty of examples of low-technology victories.  But that's not the point.

Good strategy usually trumps fear-mongering.  But ya' gotta' be patient.


[ Parent ]
All Hands on Deck (2.00 / 2)
Along with the impressive and vocal demonstration outside the AHIP conference today came a not-so-thinly veiled threat from organised labour:


In a series of conversations with the Huffington Post, many of labor's leading voices pledged to launch a massive, arm-twisting effort to help persuade skeptical lawmakers to pass health care legislation into law. And in addition to their traditional ammunition -- from email campaigns to town hall events -- talk also centered on exacting electoral revenge against those who end up voting against reform.

"I hope this sends a message to Congress," Gerald McEntee, president of 1.6-million-member AFSCME, told the Huffington Post. "I think we have to demonstrate that we are not going to stand aside, that we are going to take them out if they don't help us at all."

Sam Stein - Labor On Dems Who Block Health Reform: We'll 'Take Them Out' Huffington Post 9 Mar 09

So there.  The health care industry have been taking a few well orchestrated hits lately as a consequence of statements and events picked up even in the mainstream media.  Somebody's getting their messaging sorted out, it seems.


Just ask Blanche Lincoln how serious labor is (2.00 / 1)
about this.

Hey, Brett, piss or get off the pot.  Really.

[ Parent ]
And yet... (2.00 / 4)
Congressional Democrats are under increasing pressure to finish up health care reform, but they've had enough of the White House dictating deadlines to them.

snip

"I was at a meeting with Rahm Emanuel and he was certainly informed that we don't feel that we want any deadline assigned to us," House Energy and Commerce Chairman Henry Waxman told a few reporters outside of a Democratic caucus meeting this evening. "We want to pass the bill, we want to make sure it's the way it should be, and soon as possible, but we don't feel that we have to have any particular deadline."

snip

I asked Waxman how Emanuel reacted to the pushback?

"He said he would pass it on," Waxman said with a smirk.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo...

Sorry, but what the fuck are they waiting for?  Pass the damn bill and move the fuck on to something else and/or (preferably) reconciliation.

It's going to be Easter recess, then some other recess, then Memorial Day recess, then some other fucking excuse.

Yes, these people are pissing me off.

Hey, Brett, piss or get off the pot.  Really.


Oh, I Love This... (2.00 / 4)
From a reader at Sullivan's Daily Dish:


Since Nixon, it's been governors or vice presidents, people ingrained with the authoritative executive.  Obama is bringing back the separation of powers, letting legislators legislate, and for most people, they've never been alive to see a President act with this sort of deference and constitutional understanding (it probably doesn't hurt that he was a Constitutional Law professor either).  What he's doing now is what a President should do.  He let the legislative process largely play out, now's the time for the President to advocate and make sure it gets done.  It's the bottom of the 9th, and the Closer is coming in.

Anonymous poster via Andrew Sullivan - The Closer The Atlantic 9 Mar 10

Works for me.


Brilliant (2.00 / 4)
It seems that a variety of dems, from Jerome Armstrong to Jane Hamsher, have internalised the petty tyrants and authoritarian  personalities. They want to kick Obama's ass, for not kicking ass, and so the ass kicking becomes a circular ass kicking squad. (Though JA is about as useful as one legged man in an arse kicking contest).

This sudden shift to constitutional governance explains a lot of the bewilderment and anger of the last year. From DKOS to Teabaggers, they're all addicted to the normal politics of executive infringement. It takes a while to detoxify

Moose Juice; debate without hate


[ Parent ]
Stand and Deliver | 57 comments
Search




Advanced Search
Menu

Make a New Account

Username:

Password:



Forget your username or password?


Blog Roll
Andrew Bacevich
Angry Bear
Balloon Juice
Booman Tribune
C4O Democrats
Crooks and Liars
Daily Kos
Five Thirty Eight
Glenn Greenwald
Huffington Post
Juan Cole
MYDD
Open Left
RumpRoast
Scholars & Rogues
The Field
Wonkette
VetVoice
Moose With Blogs
Atdleft
Barr
BorderJumpers
Brit
BTchakir
Canadian Gal
Charles Lemos
Cheryl Kopec
Curtis Walker
Douglas Watts
Hubie Stubert
John Allen
Intrepid Liberal
ItStands
JoeTrippi
LibraryGrape
MichaelEvan
National Gadfly
Senate Guru
Zachary Karabell




Advertisement


Back to Top

Posting Guidelines  |  FAQ  |  Privacy Policy  |  Contact the Moose  |  Contact Congress
Powered by: SoapBlox