Wisconsin Terrorist named: his White Power Past

It's Obama's fault for having an African father (2.00 / 4)

If we weren't shoving a black president down their throats, they'd just stay in their clubhouses playing their awful music.  We've provoked them with our radical agenda.  Now the chickens are coming home to roost.  

- assuming that everyone here knows that's snark, right? -

In the meantime, Huffpost is reporting that Margie Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church (why again aren't baptists suing them for slandering the name of their denomination?) tweeted that "God sent another shooter."

But of course, we live in a world where Saul Alinsky is a dirty name and 'leftist' is a scary smear...

The future is unwritten

---

by: Strummerson @ Tue Aug 07, 2012 at 02:49:37 AM UTC

Well, (2.00 / 2)

- assuming that everyone here knows that's snark, right? -

I should hope so...

In the meantime, Huffpost is reporting that Margie Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church (why again aren't baptists suing them for slandering the name of their denomination?) tweeted that "God sent another shooter."

Those assclowns (I just like that tag atm...) provide us with an on-going petri dish to test freedom of speech in, which I assume has some value. Other than that they are specifically the worst people on earth short of those using weapons for the same purpose.

But of course, we live in a world where Saul Alinsky is a dirty name and 'leftist' is a scary smear...

We also live in a world where (I won't goad the debate with a 'rightist' name, but I could) is a dirty name and "right wing" is a scary smear...

Who cares?

This goes back to a debate we had here quite some time ago about the word "Progressive" in which someone responded: [sic]"Yeah, but Conservatives say the word 'Liberal' is bad!!!!"

Sometimes facepalm is all one can do...

"Yes, your ideological opponents believe you are wrong and bad. The sun also rises in the east."

Why are liberals so obsessed with how they are defined by people who do not agree with them about anything? I know I'm asking for trouble with that question and could get a whole raft of deeply emotional responses, but the only answer I will have to any of that is:

"Screw 'em."

Leftist ideology has in fact been used to justify an enormous amount of violence (violins, too). So has right-wing ideology. Every ideology taken to an extreme justifies violence, so the arguing of any ideology in moderation has the same basic burden to struggle against.

I agree that today in western culture the majority of such risk of terrorist violence comes from right-wing ideological sources.

I disagree with your assertion that the majority of the population does not understand this, and that they rather see the threat primarily from the left. That is a view that I respectfully suggest comes from looking at the world too much from within your own window.

It seems to me that the vast majority of Americans and "Westerners" see the primary threat of violence today as coming from the Right (at least inasmuch as the majority even think about the notionally linear political spectrum). The more breathless on the Right feel besieged by popular opinion because they are and largely deserve it, those on the Left feel besieged because they like to.

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon

---

by: Chris Blask @ Tue Aug 07, 2012 at 11:47:06 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Actually, I didn't assert that in my comment, though I see where you might infer it (2.00 / 5)

But I do think that if we analyze lexicographical and rhetorical conventions, wherein 'left' and 'leftist' are employed in alarmist speech more frequently than the right and are positioned as essentially foreign to US political, cultural, and intellectual history, we see that there is indeed a problem.  And though I of course agree that historically left-wing ideology has been used to incite and justify violence (and still is in other parts of the world) it's not true in this country since the Weather underground fell apart.  The problem we face today is that the right, and to a certain degree the mainstream, engages in false equivalences that circulate without anyone debunking them.

The future is unwritten

---

by: Strummerson @ Tue Aug 07, 2012 at 13:53:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Perhaps, (2.00 / 3)

The problem we face today is that the right, and to a certain degree the mainstream, engages in false equivalences that circulate without anyone debunking them.

And I will certainly grant that someone who more empirically studies such social trends might be able to provide proofs of that point. I even agree that there is a patina against "leftist" that does not stick the same way to "rightist" in the US today. However, I think that despite certain argumentative disadvantages this may present to those debating from the left, that the total impact of this post-cold-war/post-weather-underground leftover is less than leftists might believe.

An "Inside ball" impact, that only matters to poli-sci geeks and opposing activists.

It would be my guess that a poll of citizens would show that your average Bob and Sue recognize religious zealotry as the #1 source for terrorist violence and the threat thereof. Outside of the 1% who watch FOX News and particularly the 1% of those who attend Tea Party rallies I bet it would be quite a challenge to find folks worried about the Coming Red Menace.

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon

---

by: Chris Blask @ Tue Aug 07, 2012 at 23:53:12 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not just a racist piece of crap, a complete idiot as well. (2.00 / 3)

They don't have to go together, though they so often do. Not even the first such moran to so fully misunderstand the universe to confuse Sikh's with Muslims.

An unfortunate use of this assclown in analogy was made here in a recent thread, a more accurate analogy is to bin Laden, Hitler as you say, and every other lunatic fool who ever raised a weapon for the One True People.

Understanding, hope and optimism are the only things imho that can reduce this sort of insanity. Killing because the other person is not like you is, historically, a very common thread. Among the things that America and the whole post-French-revolution 'equality' thread have promoted is the idea that there are views of humanity beyond being born into God's Chosen People with instructions to oppress or eliminate the people God created but (by some sick logic) whom He hates.

I wish my knowledge of Sikhism was a little richer, but as I understand the theology it is particularly sad that the victims of this crime are so removed from the violence so often associated with religion. Sikh's in my experience are exceptionally peaceful, thoughtful and diligent members of society.

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon

---

by: Chris Blask @ Tue Aug 07, 2012 at 11:05:30 AM UTC

I won't bother to explain why these stupid fuckers... (2.00 / 4)

are worthless pieces of shit (is there a way we can reclaim their carbon and put it to better use?) but let me touch on one thing, and make a disjointed an ironic oberservation:

these assholes ruin tattoos for decent ink enthusiasts like me. i mean, look at that crap. jeez, scumbags. you know, about a year ago, a colleague and I had some fieldwork out near some backwater town in a relatively remote part of central California. at the end of a long hot day, we stopped off at a mini-mart/gas station thing to grab something fresh/cool to drink on the drive back to HQ.  anyway, my colleague is fueling up out rig, and I head in for a couple of icy fountain drinks. anyway, there's a youngish (maybe mid 20s) white dude behind the register, and an older lady milling about the counter. There's nobody else in the place. I locate the soda contraption and start filling the cups with ice and soft drinks when I sense someone looking at me. Scanning over, I see the woman (prolly in her late 50s/early 60s?) eyeballing me rather intensely, and notice that the young guy is saying something to her under her breath, and he looks uncomfortable. Takes about 3 seconds for me to piece together that she's likely the establishent's owner, and he's an employee (maybe her grandson or something). Anyway, I take the drinks up the the counter, set them down, and say that "I'm going to grab a snack or something too". As I approached, the lady is just looking me up and down, with this really sour face on, and I'm thinking that maybe I've wandered into the middle of some unpleasant conversation they were having or something....I dunno, whatever, right?

Anyway, I start walking down the few aisles hunting for a Cliff Bar or what-have-you, and the woman is tailing me -- and I mean right on my ass. All with this 'look' on her face. I'm thinking, what the hell? The store is really small, and you could easily see and watch anyone from anywhere inside. It dawns on me that she probably thinks I'm going to steal something. Like I'm a shoplifter or whatever. So yeah, I'm now officially offended.

So I turn to her, and say, "Excuse me, is there something you need from me?" She's still sporting the sour puss, but it's now glazed over with a touch of fear. Her lip was actually trembling. She does not make eye contact with me, but I can see her eyes tracing the tatoos along my arms--up down, up, down, up down. It's the tats, right? I must be a criminal. A low-life. Not to be trusted because of my appearance. So yeah, I'm now officially pissed off. Flustered somewhat, I abandon the snack idea and brush past her toward the counter to pay for the damned drinks. As I do, the look on the young clerk's face expresses clear discomfort, but nothing like hers. His was obviously reflecting shame and embarrassment, and some relief as I greeted him cordially and bounced before I made a scene of confronting this lady.

By the time I get back in the rig, I'm steaming mad. How dare she judge me? For what? My appearance? I'm ranting about it to my coworker, who's gallantly trying to calm me down with a light-hearted joke:

Maybe she didn't like the color scheme?

...and right then, it hits me like the proverbial ton of bricks. This hag judged me on the colors of my skin. A little reminder of my white priveledge. What I had just felt was 0.000000000000000000000012% of what people of color feel in this country EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THEIR LIVES. I'm a fucking grown man. Imagine how that kind of treatment would feel if you're a 12 year old hispanic boy, or a Sikh, or a 7 year old black girl?

So yeah...END APATHY? fucking bigot pigs. no value in a just and decent society. NONE.

Earth is the best vacation place for advanced clowns. --Gary Busey
 

---

by: fogiv @ Tue Aug 07, 2012 at 21:44:45 PM UTC

ok, sorry for the swearing. (2.00 / 3)

that was a little too stream-of-consciousness.

Earth is the best vacation place for advanced clowns. --Gary Busey
 

---

by: fogiv @ Tue Aug 07, 2012 at 21:45:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

no, actually (2.00 / 4)

it felt just right for what you were saying.

If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done subjunctively.

---

by: janicket @ Tue Aug 07, 2012 at 22:43:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Preconceptions. (2.00 / 3)

Always necessary, often bad.

We cannot help but pre-judge, which is not the same as the pat "everyone is a racist" plum. There just isn't the time in the day to allow every person in sight the opportunity to fully express their personhood prior to making any assumptions.

The best we can do is argue for pause.

Yes, if you are young with your pants around your knees swaggering down the street with tats on your knuckles muttering to yourself and shifting your gaze obsessively and menacingly back and forth you may just be an honors student with a lot on your mind. But that is less likely than other possibilities.

Same with all of us. Same with the liberal Santa Cruz kids standing on the street, the conservative Dandridge, TN 500lb mama with the oxygen tube in the beat up pickup, same with me or you wherever we are. Nobody is necessarily what they appear, but we cannot help a certain pre-judging based on what we see.

In FLA at the paintball course Damien and I went to was a skinny guy covered face and all with tats, many of them racist. Nice enough guy once he realized he wasn't going to get the pat response from me that he was after. Even seemed a little sheepish about them, maybe realizes too late that following his peers isn't always good. Probably doomed to follow that path, but one could hope.

But I dunno, Fog. Tats are so common these days in most cities, even small town folks tend to have them as often as not. I'm ink-free so my opinion isn't perhaps as weighted with interest, but for my part this fuckwad hasn't tainted my view on tint.

He has ratcheted up my concern for the psychotic rhetoric of the political Right as well as the reactionary smugness of the activist Left which gives the former the false justification their handlers are looking for.

Since none of us here are members of what currently passes for rightist political camps in this country all we can do is not feed the fire. Palin and the whole sack of assholes desperately want everyone here and the extended Left to make the comments that these punkmonkeys use to prove to each other Their Freedoms Are At Risk.

We have to try to deny them their oxygen.

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon

---

by: Chris Blask @ Wed Aug 08, 2012 at 00:11:13 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yeah. You've had a taste of it I guess (2.00 / 4)

And - until I met you - I might have had some residual inkist prejudice

One could say that tats are optional, unlike skin color. But so much racist prejudice is against supposedly optional cultural tokens like yarmulkas or turbans your analogy is actually really accurate. Religious or cultural background isn't actually that optional, more often than not

So please forgive, Fogiv, my inkist past statements. You a misty make tats look artistic and cool. I just wish more people had more love of difference. Though I must say our mixed race or Somali born Olympic gold medallist heroes have stuffed a lot of the bigots here for the last few weeks

The p***artist formerly known as 'Brit'

---

by: Peter Jukes @ Wed Aug 08, 2012 at 02:07:43 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Horrible iPad typos (2.00 / 2)

"You and Misty make tats look artistic and cool"

The p***artist formerly known as 'Brit'

---

by: Peter Jukes @ Wed Aug 08, 2012 at 14:46:00 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The colors of my skin... (2.00 / 5)

I've read this a few times. It's a diary quality/short story quality/ etc. type of post.  

Just because they are posting on a progressive site doesn't make them progressives. - John Allen

---

by: spacemanspiff @ Wed Aug 08, 2012 at 15:26:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Indeed (2.00 / 3)

The Colors of my Skin

Full of points from all perspectives. Among them, the exclusivity of experience.

In a very early Internet (USENET) discussion I made a similarly caveated comment based on the length of my hair. The caveating included acknowledgement that I could simply cut it, that I had chosen it and that it was in no way really comparable to what a person with more measurable tint to their epidermis would experience.

That is mostly true.

But the more time passes the less true I believe it to be. More importantly, I come to think that this belief in the exclusivity of the experience of prejudice is itself a significant part of the current perpetuation of the problem.

"You don't know. You can't know."

Well, yeah. I can.

None of us know fully and exactly what it is like to be anyone but ourselves. Certainly neither Fog nor I know exactly what it is like to be a fatherless black child growing up in Watts, but neither does Toronto Tony (lifelong suburban friend, black as midnight, solid parents). Tony shares about as much experience with that kid in Watts from being one of the few black kids in his neighborhood as I do for being an American kid in Canada, a longhair, a geek or  simply Not From Around Here. I have certainly spent more of my time poor and at the mercy of my surroundings than Tony has and don't have a reliable father like his so in many ways I understand that kid better.

There is specificity of experience that parses out to smaller demographics that certainly have their own spins, but to assert that suffering, mistreatment and hostile prejudice are a birthright of My People is itself feeding into the idea that racial prejudices are correct and appropriate.

So yes, Fog, you can know discrimination just like the real thing.

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon

---

by: Chris Blask @ Wed Aug 08, 2012 at 19:37:01 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Did I mention (2.00 / 5)

that I don't really care for racist neo-fascists?

The future is unwritten

---

by: Strummerson @ Wed Aug 08, 2012 at 03:16:08 AM UTC

The odd thing is that anyone does. (2.00 / 1)

It's like finding a four-leaf clover, except in a creepy way.

As mentioned about my tattoo-faced neo-nazi paintball team mate in Florida, I believe that most adults who end up embracing that description followed very sad and twisted childhood paths to get there. It isn't a state that can be arrived at by way of a happy childhood supported by nurturing adults of any description.

And while the specific path to that description of an adult does in fact come from roots that can be fairly called "right wing" that is not I believe really the point. Very similar failings in parenthood from the other side of the tracks lead to Ted Kyzynsky and the psychotically anti-social leftists who leave their filthy fingerprints all over that set of ideologies as well.

Show me a neo-fascist racist adult and I will show you some fucked-up parents. Bet you a hundred buck, every time.

"Conway, whom experience had taught that rudeness was by no means a guarantee of good faith, was even less inclined to regard a well-turned phrase as a proof of insincerity."  James Hilton, Lost Horizon

---

by: Chris Blask @ Wed Aug 08, 2012 at 19:43:24 PM UTC

[ Parent ]