Teaching, as an art, not a science

by: Jjc2008

Sun Mar 15, 2009 at 13:23:40 PM EDT


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Way back when as a new teacher, when people used to ask me, "What do you teach?"  I would answer, somewhat sardonically, "Children, I teach children."
It amused me that so many of my peers, not in education, did not get it, looked down on me, and considered my job easy.  I knew if I said, "Math or science" they would give me some fake admiration, and then, politely remind me how much more money I would make if I had gone into research, or business.

It was the late 1960s' when I began my teaching career at age 21.  And by the early 70s I knew that a) I picked the right career b) my job was one in which I had no conflicts with my basic anti war, free love, kumbaya soul acquired during my years in college.

More to come.....

Jjc2008 :: Teaching, as an art, not a science
I was a young idealist like so many of my peers.  But I had grown up in a rather poor family.  Neither of my parents had been given the opportunity for an education, my mother an immigrant whose parents died when she was young and pulled out of school to work by an authoritarian brother-in-law. My father was first generation from a large family (11 siblings) and left home before graduation to find work during the depression.

The fact that both my sister and I graduated college is a tribute to my parents who valued education.  My father, until the day he died, proudly announced wherever and whenever that one daughter was a registered Nurse and one was a teacher.

Books that influenced me early on in my career are "The Water is Wide" by Pat Conroy and "The Geranium on the Window Sill Just Died, but Teacher You Went Right On" by Albert Cullum.
I have always enjoyed, been lucky enough to be the recipient of praise from my students, their parents, administrators.  More than a few times I was nominated for "teacher awards" (some big (Milliken), some small and local which I turned down because I feel they are like Merit Pay, ultimately unfair and impossible to judge.  I did accept two nods for "Who's Who in American Eduation" because there is no monitary award and no hoopla.  Academically successful college students are given the opportunity to nominate one of their past teachers who they think influenced them in a positive way.  Names go in a book which is available to those named to buy.  Done.  Finished.  

The reason I explain all this is to give you a sense of who I am and have been.  Now, I am a semi retired (I occasionally substitute) educator. I was in public education for forty years. Thirty of my years were in the classroom.  Two years I was a specialist with Title 1 programs; for eight years I was the media specialist running the library and computer network for an elementary school in a large district.  My MA is in "Educational Technology."  I also have an MA equivalent in Counseling.  Overall I have an MA plus 130 credits above.  While I mostly taught grade 6 in elementary I also put in a few years in middle school and for ten years was an adjunct professor for the MA program for teachers at a liberal arts college.

I am discouraged and disappointed in President Obama's continuation of what I consider the right wing philosophy of testing and training for public schools.
I recently read that President Obama and Sec Duncan want to push the notion of national standards, which I believe is the precursor for national testing.
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/...

I also disagree whole heartedly with the public funding of charter schools and am adamantly against the notion of Merit Pay.  I saw first hand what happened with "teaching awards" both local and on the national level.  Who wins these awards is not necessarily the best teachers, but rather the best at being able to sell themselves to others.  More often than not, these awards are won by those with the best pr skills or pr friends.
And there is cheating.....even for the awards that give no monetary prizes.  Can you imagine when big money is involved how much "cheating" there is.  It happens now. I saw it (and yes, it was reported but to no avail...that's another diary).  

John suggested I write a diary to get a discussion started. I fear my personal history and views will overwhelm and bore but I felt it necessary to let you know my personal biases up front.

And before I pose some questions here are a few anecdotal stories to fuel your thinking.
*As I said, I now substitute occasionally.  A school in which I sub is one of the highest scoring schools in our state. It is a public school in a nice neighborhood.  It is near the college where I worked in the MA program.  Several students at the school have parents who work at or attend the college.  Also there are many doctors and lawyers living in this upscale neighborhood.  To the east of the school is a more modest area, populated by many teachers.  So this school is does well.   There is a safe house for abused women near there but the number of students from there is insignificant mathematically when it comes to scores. The staff is mostly good.  A few excellent teachers, and frankly two teachers I consider weak links.  However the scores for this school every year since NCLB have come in high.  The kids from affluent families who do not do well get tutors.  
Parents work with them.  If the school needs something the district won't provide, a fund raiser will get it.  There are connections.  Parents who know this corporation is giving out "grants" and parents who have the expertise in grant writing to "assist" the teachers in writing it.
At this school there is a boy name S.....  I worked with him. He has a syndrome called "San Filipe Syndrome or type III mucopolysaccharidosis.
While there are many physical issues as a result, the one for this discussion is severe mental retardation that gets worse.  Life span is 13 to 15 years.  So this sweet little guy is seven years old, but has no language skills.  He can walk and make sounds but wears a diaper, and is more like a seven month old than a seven year old.  
I worked with him for three weeks, substituting as the school needed to hire someone.  He needs one on one at all times.  He needs to be fed, to be changed and there are attempts to teach him skills.  He likes to put things in his mouth just a baby does.  He laughs and cries but one must figure out why.  Because the teachers and aides must eat, must use the restroom themselves, and work with other special needs/learning disables students, it takes a team effort for this child and intense scheduling.
Every minute with S, takes from a student who has to be tested for NCLB.  Also in this school is a child with Downs' Syndrome, a child with Fragile X, and a child with ideopathic seizure disorder who must wear a helmet whenever he plays.
Now because this school is so heavily loaded with high performing academic students, the impact on the school of these special needs children is not so noticeable except to those who work there.  

On the other hand, a close friend of mine works at the lowest performing school in the district, a school where the free lunch percentage is the highest with over 80% qualify (while the first school has less than 5%).  In that school, one that I worked at before I retired, there were entire families of special needs students.   As well, they were recently impacted with two Downs' Syndrome students, and one student with another physical syndrome that also was accompanied by mental retardation.  As well, there was a young CP student from a poor family...she had no language, could not walk (though had she had support at a younger age her muscle and language development would be improved...and through the efforts of that staff getting the Shriners involved, the child was given one on one tutoring, physical therapy and doctors who did a surgery to increase her chances of becoming mobile. It was clear to the staff this child was bright if only she could communicate with us...raising money to get her specialized computer equipment became a goal for the staff).

So who should get the Merit Pay....the first staff
that I described that earns an EXCELLENCE BANNER yearly due to test scores.  Or the second school which sadly, despite improvement in scores yearly, still is at the bottom of the heap.  

Should the teachers who work lovingly with S get merit pay even though he will never take a test?  Or the teachers who worked so hard to get the medical help for the CP child and raise money to get her computer equipment?  And while much of the special needs team was working with those students, what about the teacher who has five special ed kids in her regular ed classes?   As hard as she tries, she cannot meet the needs of all her third graders.  FIVE are Unsatisfactory, when it comes to the state tests.  One is Advanced.  Should she work to move the five U's to Proficient?  But she also has ten who are HIGLY Proficient.  A few more points MIGHT get those kids to Advance and the way the scoring works, getting a few U's moved to P would do little but getting a few HP kids to Advance might really help the school.  As one administrator asked, "Which way gets us more bang for our buck when it comes to AYP (average yearly progress)?"  In other words, who should we help more based on how we look to the world rather than who needs the help.

Another question: Suppose you are a young, gifted teacher, and no matter how hard and long you work, your school is at the bottom.  The kids are poor, the transition rate of families is over 60% (meaning most of the kids you teach in first grade will not even be there for third, fourth of fifth grade for testing).  Due to retirement an opening comes up at the high scoring school!  You have a great rep, you know you are good, and you are tired of being beat up in the press for failing (you are your school).  And the notion of MERIT PAY for bringing in the scores is tempting since you struggle with your salary as you have neither the years or degrees that get you your increases.  
What do you do?

This is my attempt to get a dialogue going.  I am not a researcher but I will point you to research and places where others have been less emotional or artsy about this topic.

http://www.openleft.com/showDi...

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I'd be happy to start (2.00 / 6)
I've never been a teacher, or known one... the way I've seen this issue has been that most professions offer bonuses and salary increases to exemplary employees. Why should teaching be the exception? Of course, I see the pitfalls, the "slippery slope", and I sure as heck don't want teacher's merit to be decided on, say, test scores alone. That would be ridiculous. We've already seen what No Child Left Behind wreaks. Maybe there's a middle ground?

A reply!!! Thank you. (2.00 / 7)
Well, I have to tell you I cannot agree to this because I think that the teaching profession more resembles the law enforcement profession, fire fighting profession, medical profession.

Unless I am woefully ignorant, I do not know how police officers or fire fighters or doctors or nurses are given "merit pay."  

Do we reward police officers for more arrests?  or less arrests?  Or fire fighters?  Do they get a bonus for putting out a bigger, more deadly fire in say a high rise than if they put out a fire for a single family home?

Do doctors get a bonus for saving patients?  curing them?  Because if they do, then I am guessing few would want to treat those with terminal cancers.  And yet I don't think oncologists get paid less than say general practitioners.
I do believe these people get better pay based on location (for example I believe a police officer in a large city gets a higher pay on average than one in a small town; as well, I KNOW teaching in a large urban district most often pays more than in a small rural area.
I also think that in medicine, specialty areas pay more.  As well, in some areas, educators are thinking about paying more based on what is needed.  But this also carries some real issues to be solved.  If we think teaching math in advanced high school is more important than teaching kindergarten, it defies all research because overwhelmingly research points to early education being more important to future success......

Another thing:  how do reconcile these things?  I would pay, as would many people I know, big bucks for a competent plumber.  Plumbing to me is an IMPORTANT SKILL.  Many who go on to be a plumber may or may not have succeeded in reading Shakespeare's As You Like It or learning advanced calculus.  Yet, this person has an innate sense of "how things (pipes) work."  
Or how about the woodworker.  Shop teachers often work with gifted artisans who have a knack for looking at the wood and knowing how to make beautiful and practical at the same time.  They get it.  Do we count Shop Teachers as important to national standards?

What do we value?  Does the Special Needs teacher who takes the high school severe needs students or several city bus trips yearly teaching them how to read a bus schedule, how to make change to pay for the bus ride, how to behave on the bus with strangers,  get valued as much as the teacher who does advanced physics?   In a world of limited bonus/merit pay, who is valued enough to get money?

How would you give "merit pay?"  Would a special needs teacher ever qualify?  Or a PE teacher?  How about a kindergarten teacher compared to a physics teacher?
I would just like to hear those who think this should be done, explain to me who, what, where, and how?


[ Parent ]
You make fantastic points (2.00 / 3)
And I agree with you. This is one of those hard choices. Absolutely, there are so many different kinds of teachers, it would be hard to discern a proper method for merit pay, and I have seen how commission-based salespeople can be- I was one, I managed some, and I don't like the mindset that can breed. But I do think that teachers, in general, are vastly underpaid, and I would support merit pay under a system that would be fair enough to run. The argument some seem to make, that "it's too hard to figure out, so no merit pay" doesn't sit well with me. There should be something... maybe, some sort of "profit sharing", where a school is merited as a whole on it's performance on a matrix of things, such as student or parent satisfaction, test scores, weighted along with other metrics so that a fair approximation could be made.

[ Parent ]
I am a teacher without a classroom. (2.00 / 4)
I graduated a little more than 2 years ago and managed to move to an area that is sadly (for me) not experiencing a teacher shortage.

I am torn with regard to merit pay.  I'll have to mull the arguments pros and cons of both.  There are a lot of potential pitfalls although I wonder if the administration of such was left up to each district if some of these might be mitigated.  I do think administrators need to be more involved in monitoring teachers in the classroom.  Checking grades on a computer or popping up in a classroom once a semester isn't enough.  Although I'm pretty sure I had a principal listen in over the loudspeaker at least once while I was subbing.

I have seen teachers who are highly valued because they strictly teach to the test therefore they have the "proof" that they are "great" teachers.  I've seen teachers who put more value into teaching social studies (my area) with an eye toward real life uses versus strictly teaching the important dates, facts, people.

Students tend not to like social studies because they see it as the study of a bunch of irrelevent dead dudes that has no bearing on their life.  Math was hard for me because I didn't understand why I should care about x+y=z.  Frankly, I still don't but I'd never tell a student that.  Making students care about the subject through real life needs is so important and is being more understood and adapted.

It is also unfortunate that communities see low income children (and schools) as someone else's problem.  These kids are generally the ones who need the most help.  I was substituting when I first moved to Vermont.  There are two schools in a lower income neighborhood.  I am ashamed to admit that I tended to cringe when I got a call to go to these schools.  The kids can be exhausting mentally and physically.  But they deserve the best that we can give them and are well worth the effort.  Once I gave myself a stern talking-to I really liked going to these schools.  Yes, I was still dog tired when I got home but the sense of accomplishment was so mucher greater than when you can breeze through the day.  It was a reminder about why I wanted to teach in the first place.

Finally, I think we need to take a serious look at how new teachers are introduced into a classroom.  One thing President Obama has mentioned several times is having mentor teachers.  I'm sure some schools do this already but I think it should be incorporated everywhere.  I was a long-term sub right after I graduated and, although I had done some of my student teaching at that school, knowing that you are reponsible for the lessons, the attendance, the grading records, discipline, etc. can be intimidating.  I was basically thrown in early in the semester and sank or swam on my own.  I came out of it just fine (I ain't a spring chicken) but if someone hasn't had an extensive work history starting the first day at a job is bad enough.  Having to do it with a room full of students is another.

Hey, Brett, piss or get off the pot.  Really.


I remember my first day like it was yesterday (2.00 / 3)
when it was in September of 1967.  I was 21 years old, just graduated in May and got a job immediately and my pay was $5400 for the year.

I walked into that 5th grade and I was scared.  I had student taught in a poor school with "ungraded" classes (the trend at that time).  My class there was 30 kids, 26 boys, 4 girls and they were the lowest of the groups of 9 and 10 year olds.  My supervising teacher was on her last year, clearly burned out and/or believed in sink or swim.  My supervisor from the college came in, gave me kudos all the time, and told me that wherever I went, it would be a walk in the park after my student teaching chore.

I was lucky to have two older (in their thirties) teachers on either side of me and they were both great. One taught me to have a sense of humor with myself and my kids, and the other taught me organizational skills.  It was a very middle class school with a relatively normal range of low to high achievers.

After four years there, I was bored and went to an inner city district where I believe I REALLY learned to teach.  Or at least to recognize when sometimes common sense was more important than research.

As for MERIT PAY, here is my belief.  There should be "Commitment Pay."  Get teachers to vie for, compete for the chance to teach in the lowest performing school, the most difficult schools......and if they pass the muster of being good enough, they must commit to at least five years.  Personal relationships to a community can make all the difference in the world.  

It is easy to get teachers to go to high performing schools.
When you work at a school that has kids already scoring in the 80th percentile the minute they walk in your room, it is a bonus.  If you are really good, you will be recognized in many ways by the parents and the students.  You will get parent support for any and everything.  Need the kids to all bring in materials (paper, pencils, kleenex, snacks) and send a note and you get it. In the schools in a poor neighborhood, it comes out of your pocketbook.  I don't resent that. I did it. It made my life easier.  I was sick of counting pieces of paper (art, writing etc) and having it doled out to me. I bought my own.

In one elementary school here, a high performing affluent school, fund raisers pay for a full time "Spanish Teacher."
So not only do the students there get a language from kindergarten on, the teachers there all get an extra planning time.

In the other school, the one from which I retired, in the poorest performing school, recess in the AM...cancelled.  Class trips mostly cancelled.  The arts...gone.  Rarely do the teachers there do science or social studies because those all important reading and math scores are all that matter for funding and AYP.  

It's wrong.  The kids in the poor neighborhoods need those field trips.  Seriously before NCLB we pushed to get trips to the Art Museum, to the Performing Arts center, to the local "tourist's places" where kids who lived there their entire life never got to go......
we are near Pike's Peak so one of our 4th grade trips was to take the Cog rail to the top.  CUT.

As usual I am going on too long.
In art, judging the best is subjective.  Mozart or Beethoven?  Picasso or Van Gogh or Monet? Davinci or Michaelangelo?  

I have seen gifted teachers who are as different as night and day.  And even the most gifted teacher will not be the "best" for 100% of the students 100% of the time.  For every parent who thought I was wonderful, I guarantee there is probably one whose eyes rolled. Kids are different. How they learn is different. How they interact with a certain teacher is different.  It is way too complicated to judge objectively.  I believe that with all my heart.  

I remember the first surgeon I had for a major surgery. I loved him.  He made me laugh when I was scared.  He got me to help myself get well.  A friend of mine hated him. She had had him and found him "incompetent" in her view.  She hated the scar he left.  She wondered how I could be happy with my scar.  I was happy to be healthy.  I never notice my scar.  She did not think he was serious enough.  I loved his humor.  We both got healthy but she ragged on him, I bragged on him.  
I believe it is the same for teachers. Two students in the same class at the same time can and do have differing views on good teaching.  
For the extremes, it is not so bad (we all can recognize the EXTREMELY bad and the EXTREMELY GREAT) but the vast majority are somewhere in between and I believe it would be the best self promoters getting the "bonuses" not the best teachers.


[ Parent ]
First of all, (2.00 / 2)
thank you for this diary. Education is one of the keys to future success for individuals, their communities and their country.

I'd also like to thank you for your dedication to this cause. I've known a lot of teachers and every one of them has been dedicated. Teaching, like nursing, seems to attract people who care.

You make it very clear that merit pay is an iffy prospect. I already agreed with this, as was obvious from what I've written in other diaries, but now I'm even more inclined to doubt its practicality.

I suppose one type of merit pay might be to reward those who make extra efforts towards furthering their own education. However, this is already done in some ways through salary raises and tuition assistance.

One thing is for sure, as you have so clearly shown, we can't base it on student test results. We can't base it on teacher popularity, obviously. We can't base it on principals' recommendations, because that way leads only to cronyism.

Here's a thought, maybe we can give merit pay for parent/teacher meetings. Teachers who exceed a certain baseline would get rewarded for each additional hour they spend in P/T meetings.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis


Thank you (2.00 / 3)
for encouraging me to write this diary. Don't know that it will get the resulted conversations we need but it's a start.  

This is only the beginning. (2.00 / 2)
This diary gave you a chance to establish your credentials and to open the topic for discussion. Hopefully, we can take it further from here.

Merit pay is only one small part of the puzzle. We are all aware of the charter school issue, although most of us don't really understand everything involved. We are familiar with class size issues and parent participation issues, but there are a lot more factors involved that we aren't aware of yet.

We are constantly bombarded with the right-wing claim that teachers are against this or that because of the unions. What we need is a clear explanation of the reality when it comes to education initiatives. This is where you can help.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis


[ Parent ]
Well, there are some great researchers (2.00 / 2)
who have done much of the work on the issues.  Finding them, reading them, reporting on them is something that can and should be done. Not sure I am the one to do it.

But I do remember reading a lot of research on class size issues when I was teaching.  I have had classes as high as 36 and as low as 22.  Anecdotally speaking I can tell you what is best for both teachers and students.  It's not rocket science.
My colleagues and I used to joke that if Merit pay were based on class size, we could separate out who really cared about teaching/learning and who cared about money.

In the end the research showed that reducing from say, 30 to 25 had little impact, while going below 20 had a lot of measurable impact in the lower grades, especially in lower socioeconomic areas.  In reality I never quite got why research was needed. For me, it was a no brainer. Every student over 25, heavily impacted any and everything you did.  Here's an older research piece on that:

http://www.ed.gov/pubs/Reducin...

I am sure there are more, updated pieces and like everything else in education, there are many variables.  A class size of 29 with all higher than average achievers, no special needs students, and the adequate amount of materials may indeed perform better than a small class of 20 with five special needs students and not enough books or materials.

As for charter schools, I know there was a report out last year on their failure to show any significant (statistically) improvement over the public schools in their same (geograhic) area. Gwen Ifill did a report on it.  
At any rate, I know that in our areas, the longest running charter school, in a low income area, a sister school geographically to the one from which I retired, did no better ever and did worse several times in the state required testing, even though they extended the day and the year.  Longer days and years do not convert to better scores...at least not in this case.

Again variables are the issue.  And in my view, the charter school movement has always come off to me as a way to get around districts with master agreements attained through collective bargaining.

I do hope more people get in on this discussion. It is important. And before we go much further, we all need to think about what we each believe is an education, what we value, and why.  Is college the only goal of an education?  Should we bother with educating special needs students?  Or should we just "train" them to do chores?  Should students who want to go into the arts be required to take the same tests as students who want to go into science?  Should a student who cannot, chooses to not play a musical instrument be considered inferior?  Or should a student who chooses not to pursue higher math inferior?  Does learning how to do woodworking, or cooking, or designing count as education?

What is it that we as a society value? And should we try to do it all, or do only some of it?  Should we train or educate.  Well trained students often test better.  Well educated students sometimes blow off tests as unimportant.....
If a child is from an already rich and well connected family should his/her education matter?  Should we force poor students away from becoming artists or musicians where the chances of rising above a "starving artist" status is no so good?

So many questions. No simple answers.


[ Parent ]
So true. (2.00 / 2)
"No simple answers." There seldom are when it comes to complicated issues.

A large percentage of students will never aspire to higher education. What can be done to give them the best chance to be productive and involved citizens? When I was in high school we had college prep and non-college programs. The non-college should focus on skills that will prove useful later in life. That doesn't rule out math, science, language, and history. It only means we need to add other courses on work life, parenting, healthy eating and cooking, and household finances. And, everyone, college plans or otherwise, need to study art.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis


[ Parent ]
In the community where I attended high school (2.00 / 3)
the county opened up a "tech" school. Back in the 1960s it was not referring to computer technology but rather to the education of students in non-college preparatory or non business tracks.  There were courses for learning the beginning stuff to be an electrician, a plumber, a cook/chef, personal care (hairdressing etc).....and many other skills that at one time were attained through the apprentice system.  The applications to get in to that school grew exponentially and it became competitive.  Students still had to complete regular English, basic Math at their home schools and then went to the tech school half time.  Sadly, the funding died and the school is a skeleton of itself.

There are many, many skills for jobs that are not acquired in college. I read an article once (damn, I wish I could remember), about two college professors in MN. One cold, snowy night they were at a faculty function.  After it was over, they got to their car and it would not start.  They were stuck. It was late, it was cold and neither of the men, both having doctorates in their fields had a clue.  Luckily another professor knew a student who had a friend who was a genius with cars.  He called the student, who called his friend, who came and was able to get them started.  The young man who helped them was not a student at the college.  They offered him money which the young man turned down.  They thanked him and were inspired to write an article about how we no longer value the "tool makers" of our society.  At one time, the people who built the tools and kept them working were looked upon with respect.  Not so much any more.  We think the laborers who make the cars get too much money.  We discourage our students from becoming a mechanic, or a plumber, or an artisan by the way we set up our schools.

Even a rich plumber is not looked upon in the same way one might look at a CPA on Wall Street.  

We need to decide what we value and how we make sure our citizens choose to participate in our communities.  We value those who collect our garbage in one sense, and undervalue them in so many other ways.

Of course, I am sounding much more like the socialist that I am.  I believe if we stopped earmarking some professions with rewards that are ridiculous while not paying enough to others, we would be better off. I like what Denmark does.  They guarantee a pre school thru college education for ALL.  And in that time, students can find what it is they are best at, they enjoy, they want to do.  Their doctors and CEO's do not live all that much better than do their garbage collectors and all of them have health care.  I find that refreshing.

For too long our society has been beating up on our teachers for wanting too much money, but rewarding baseball players and oil men for whatever...an occasional homerun....or hit in finding oil.  

We want ALL our kids to succeed but insult and discourage the ones who do not want to go to college.  We tell kids that a good life includes the arts, the pleasures of good music and fine food and fine art and yet discourage those pursuing a profession in the arts.....

We have a lot of soul searching to do as a society...


[ Parent ]
I'm out of my depth here... (2.00 / 2)
I went to a public/state school, unlike a lot of my peers at University, but my only experience of US education was a graduating high school year exchange to Boston. The education was great - the teachers phenomenal: I didn't pay a bean but it was a private school, and so obviously atypical.

A word about incentives for good teachers though. Many anti union legislation was carried about by Margaret Thatcher in the 80s, and she simultaneously cut back teacher's wages, status, and sent her own kids to private schools.

Labour came to power in 1997 with education as the major plank of their platform for economic renewal. They gave state schools a lot more money, but insisted on productivity in return: targets were set, tables published, failing schools were subject to emergency teams. Schools could manage their own budgets, and get out of local control. Teacher pay went up massively, but only if student results improved.

On your point about schools from poor neighbourhoods, with kids who had little access to books at learning at home, the measurements were changed to incorporate the idea of 'value added'. In other words, the best schools in the country were not those deemed to get the best academic results - but the ones who got the most IMPROVEMENT from their students.

The mother of my two children comes from a family of teachers, and they were at first resistant to these changes. But they also saw, like I did, how phenomenal some of these changes were. Every school my kids have attended from primary to secondary (high school) were previously failing schools, but thanks to motivated teachers, have turned it around.

My son graduated from Drayton Manor last year, and my daughter has another two years there. I'm always amazed by how great their teachers are - how smart, informed, motivated and caring they are about how Alex and Katy do. Ten years ago the school was famous for a rape on the premises, and high levels of indiscipline. A few years ago it was nominated a beacon school (i.e. one of the top in the country) and its headmaster knighted - Sir Pritpal Singh.

I think every profession must renew and improve itself all the time. There is never any room for complacency - the lives of our kids, their education, ability, our future depends on it. For that reason, I don't object to some kinds of measures of 'best practice', and autonomy from some of the heavier kinds of bureaucratic oversight can be beneficial. We too have many more charter schools these days - a form of independence within the state sector. It seems to have improved things.

So while I think all your concerns are legitimate, there are ways of reforming things to serve the best interests of those who are most important: i.e. the children.

Teachers are remarkable public servants, and I believe they know the measure of their success is the public good of education. That's what counts.  

Moose Juice; debate without hate


What do you consider improvement? (2.00 / 2)
I understand what you are saying.  It's been done here too...
they have actually put extra money into the pockets of the teachers and the school itself when it showed "improvement" on test scores.  

But it did not last.  Why not?  Because in the end, there was cheating.  It happened in W's Texas, where the whole NCLB mentality started.  W's years as the TX governor pushed all these "reforms" and there was bragging about how improved the schools were...until years later, the truth came out.  The fix was in.  In some cases, it was out and out cheating by principals and teachers fearing loss of jobs; and in some areas the whole "encouraging poor performing students to drop out" before the tests came to light.

If I take a student from the 1 percentile to the 10th percentile that is a huge jump. One year I had three students who started out on the 1 percentile and they all made huge jumps.  On the other hand, my students in the 90th and above percentiles barely jumped at all, maybe one point, some not at all.  Statistically it is much easier to make those jumps look impressive when there is no where to go but up.  

Was I a better teacher for my lower performing students than for my higher performing students?  I don't believe so.
When students are already high up there the jumps are much harder statistically.

Now if you look at what I said, if we reward on test scores, there are a myriad of ways to cheat, and even worse, students start being viewed as potential scores, rather than as individuals.  In fact my whole point is that if we continue trying to figure out how to improve test scores, in order to decide how well a school is doing, I believe we are failing all students.  Statistically, low performing schools have learned some things over the years of NCLB and the AYP game.  If you take kids from HIGLY PROFICIENT to ADVANCED, or PROFICIENT TO HIGHLY PROFICIENT you do better overall.  Taking kids from UNSATISFACTORY to Proficient barely moves the overall school scores.  
Transfer that from a school to a teacher competing for moneies.  To me, so wrong.

So every one says, "Well, it can't be just test scores to determine merit."   So tell me what and how!  Principal/administrator judgment?  Popularity with students (the PE teachers in elementary would get all the money)? with parents?  How do you judge a kindergarten teacher whose students' successes  may not show up for 12 years?  And does he/she get credit for that child's great start in school or does that student's advanced math teacher take all the credit.  
Teaching is like planting a seed, and if you are in early childhood education, you count on others (parents, other teachers) to water and nurture that seed.  

We need reforms in education but we cannot make those reforms work without reforming society itself. A lot of the inherent problems in education do directly reflect the problems at large. Poverty impacts a child in many ways, educationally only being one of them.  The health and safety of that child as well as the health and safety of the environment in which that child lives.  A parent's attitude toward education, toward the school, has an impact.

Just because I don't believe MERIT pay or don't believe nationalizing standards will work, does not mean I don't mean things cannot be improved or need to be.  
MERIT pay in my view is all wrong because there is no fair way to measure it and you know, with limited resources, not all will get their deserved merit and some will get it without deserving it. In fact I see it as morally wrong and ridiculously unfair.   Competing for money between schools and teachers I believe hurts kids.  I would prefer all teacher's salaries go up to entice more talent; I would encourage more money put into teacher preparation and teacher mentoring from experienced teachers.  



I'll need to find out more... (2.00 / 2)
..about the UK system, but in my experience it does seem to have improved things, and they seem to have devised a way of avoid the kind of cheating going on in Texas.
I take your points, but I also think it's not beyond the wit of us all to improve things in terms of information and reward for any profession. Teaching is most definitely an art, but as someone who makes a living by writing/art I do believe that ultimately I will be rewarded by the amount of hard work I put in.

Some teachers may be excellent, but have other priorities in their life other than teacher. Others may work much longer hours with more dedication, and I don't quite understand why their extra effort for their students shouldn't meet with more remumeration.

Because the current criteria for judging teacher's performance is faulty doesn't mean, to my mind, that one shouldn't strive for measures of excellence. In the UK, there are dual measures to make sure failing students are spotted and helped, and the same for those with exceptional talents.

But there's a bigger point you make

We need reforms in education but we cannot make those reforms work without reforming society itself. A lot of the inherent problems in education do directly reflect the problems at large. Poverty impacts a child in many ways, educationally only being one of them.  The health and safety of that child as well as the health and safety of the environment in which that child lives.  A parent's attitude toward education, toward the school, has an impact.

One of the biggest determinants of a child's educational success in the UK, higher than the school he or she attends or the teaching, is parental background. If the parents read to their kids, have papers around, books, intelligent conversations, the child does better academically.

I think rather than reflect the class bound privileges of society, education is the best chance we have of breaking them, and making sure there's true mobility and unleashed talent. So education in some ways creates society too - perhaps more than any other institution I can think of.

That's why it's so important to make it the best we possibly can  


Moose Juice; debate without hate


[ Parent ]
This is true of any country. (2.00 / 3)
One of the biggest determinants of a child's educational success in the UK, higher than the school he or she attends or the teaching, is parental background. If the parents read to their kids, have papers around, books, intelligent conversations, the child does better academically.

My son is sitting at the computer with my grandson as I type this. They are going over the distance learning math class my grandson is enrolled in through the local school system. My son will probably spend a couple of hours today working with my grandson. That's great for one student, but not likely to be happening in a lot of poor homes.

Many disadvantaged students have illiterate or barely literate parents. Others have parents with learning disabilities and those disabilities have been passed on to their children. Talking about improving parental participation is all well and good for many students, but it isn't realistic for many more.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis


[ Parent ]
As the Son ... (2.00 / 4)
of a teacher, my thanks for this diary. Alas, the art not a science sensibility you so eloquently write about in this diary has not been articulated nearly enough.  

Intrepid Liberal Journal

I concur as a son of a teacher for many years. (2.00 / 1)
My mother teaches Creative Writing and Poetry, talk about hard subjects with which to try to evaluate in a merit-based pay system.  On a side note, it may be obvious, and much to my dismay, but I inherited none of her talents.   I will ask her what she thinks about it shortly and let you know.  Excellent diary JJC.

[ Parent ]
wow! a great diary. (2.00 / 2)
so happy to see a post from you - good stuff.  i briefly taught in both canada and in korea and as to the idea of merit pay - NO!  when we value the educators of our children say as much (or more) as professional athlete we might be headed in the right direction.  

what would merit pay include - student achievement gains? satisfactory evaluations by principals or committees? acquiring additional duties? gaining new skills and knowledge, and serving in hard-to-staff schools?

none of the dozens of merit pay plans in north america, south america, asia, europe, and the middle east. has ever had a successful track record in the sense that it has ever produced its intended results. any gains have been minimal, short-lived, and expensive to achieve.

but that hasn't prevented states and school districts all over the world from venturing into this misguided plan to waste money and further strain an already exhausted systems.

yet a good case can be made for merit pay, if that means higher salaries for higher professional achievement. but that can only be accomplished by instituting education reforms that include a career ladder in which teachers can, by acquiring the skills, knowledge, responsibilities, and certification, climb from one career level to the next -- for example, by advancing from associate teacher to teacher, then professional teacher, and finally chief instructor.

and by further professionalizing the practice of teaching so that teachers work in teams instead of in isolation, increasing collaboration and accountability. and by including professional development in the career path of all teachers, just as in other fields such as medicine and law. these steps must all be taken together in order for any of them to succeed.

public education cries out for this kind of fundamental reform. but it will never happen as long as policymakers continue to be less interested in improving teaching and learning than they are in drawing attention to themselves to press a political agenda.

when i lived and taught in asia and will tell you that being a teacher is consider the most respectable profession (monetarily as well).  yes even more than doctors and lawyers and they seem to 'get' the concept that education is king.



"I spend my days and nights pondering the meaning of life, the state of the universe, and the Home Shopping Network." -- Donald Roller Wilson


Great response (2.00 / 1)
I don't know what merit pay means in the US, but in terms of professional rewards, this is what I mean by rewards for professional excellence

yet a good case can be made for merit pay, if that means higher salaries for higher professional achievement. but that can only be accomplished by instituting education reforms that include a career ladder in which teachers can, by acquiring the skills, knowledge, responsibilities, and certification, climb from one career level to the next -- for example, by advancing from associate teacher to teacher, then professional teacher, and finally chief instructor.



Moose Juice; debate without hate


[ Parent ]
its my understanding... (2.00 / 1)
although i could be wrong.  that merit pay in the US/canada is mostly monetary compensation.

"I spend my days and nights pondering the meaning of life, the state of the universe, and the Home Shopping Network." -- Donald Roller Wilson

[ Parent ]
In the UK... (2.00 / 2)
...there certainly is a career ladder. Teachers start on about 25k but a headmaster of a large state school can earn as much as 150k - and I'm talking sterling not dollars. A head of year or department can expect something mid way. Special bonuses for short supply math and science teachers too.

I'm not sure teachers are paid relatively less these days, though they perhaps lag behind some professions like doctors. However, I think ALL professionals have suffered some loss of prestige and authority over the last two decades. It's partly the elevation of commerce and finance over other institutions, but perhaps something more profound is happening.

My parents, and most my friends parents, were in AWE of our school teachers, because they were much better educated than they there, normally to university/college level.

For the boomers onto Gen X, we are much more likely to be graduates ourselves than our parents, and therefore more critical, and less impressed, by our kids teachers.

Perversely, the lack of respect teachers get these days is actually a sign of the success of education.

Moose Juice; debate without hate


[ Parent ]
sounds like -- (2.00 / 1)
we could learn a thing or two about education from you all.  its funny - my son's JK teacher said something pretty monumental to me the other day and that was...

"now that my children are older i can say that my greatest hope each september was that my children's teachers would 'get' them."

in my limited time as a parent - and substantial time as a student - i couldn't agree more.

"I spend my days and nights pondering the meaning of life, the state of the universe, and the Home Shopping Network." -- Donald Roller Wilson


[ Parent ]
Thanks (2.00 / 4)
from you this is a great compliment as I have read and respected your diaries here and on MyDD.  

You succinctly said it all.  I love this especially:

yet a good case can be made for merit pay, if that means higher salaries for higher professional achievement. but that can only be accomplished by instituting education reforms that include a career ladder in which teachers can, by acquiring the skills, knowledge, responsibilities, and certification, climb from one career level to the next -- for example, by advancing from associate teacher to teacher, then professional teacher, and finally chief instructor.

and by further professionalizing the practice of teaching so that teachers work in teams instead of in isolation, increasing collaboration and accountability. and by including professional development in the career path of all teachers, just as in other fields such as medicine and law. these steps must all be taken together in order for any of them to succeed.

So many of us have pushed for this for years using our teachers' organizations/unions and bargaining.   We have made small gains but not nearly enough.  Most of us ended up lifting our salaries with more and more education (at our own expense...few districts pay for this).    But in the end, districts strapped for money in a time when the right has made the anti tax meme so popular, wanted to rid themselves of higher paid, more experienced, more educated and more expensive teachers.  One of the way charter schools got a foothold here in the very anti tax, conservative district in which I live, was their promise of "cheaper." Without the master agreement or collective bargaining, the charter school could do whatever they wanted with staffing.  So their approach was one "master teacher" per level surrounded by new, inexperienced teachers who would follow the master teacher's lead/supervison.  And the ability to consistently re staff kept costs down.  A so called "master teacher" could assign the duties any way seen fit (where under master agreements, extra duties are shared equally).
Too many temptations for cronyism

But in the end, there are ways to go forward, to improve...to put the students needs first, to take them forward from where they are, to individualize.  But it costs more than some want to pay.

I read this years ago on a poster:
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.


thanks for that jjc. (2.00 / 2)
seriously though, what does it say about our society when we pay an individual to put a ball in a hoop $20 mil a year but the person to whom we entrust to care and educate our children $40,000?

something is v. wrong with this.

"I spend my days and nights pondering the meaning of life, the state of the universe, and the Home Shopping Network." -- Donald Roller Wilson


[ Parent ]
The school district I live in now (2.00 / 1)
is one of the top schools in the state, if not in the nation. The district is in the more affluent part of the county and is very well-funded. They have multiple programs for students and their graduation rate is astronomical.

I found this page with information about the schools.


· All schools in the Grand Blanc Community School District received an "A" on the Adequate Yearly Progress Report Card.
· Grand Blanc is ranked among the top Michigan schools academically based on MEAP scores.
· Our dropout rate is less than 0.34%

Those scores are certainly tied into the funding the schools get, but I don't think that is the whole story. There is also this -


· All teachers who teach Core Academic subjects have achieved Highly Qualified status at all grade levels.
· Nearly 4,600 families contributed approximately 71,500 hours of their time to individual buildings and district wide activities.

Those advantages lead to this kind of thing -


· Over 90% of Grand Blanc High School graduates enroll in an institution of higher learning.
· SchoolMatch, an organization serving Fortune 500 companies, selected Grand Blanc Community Schools for its 2006 "What Parents Want Award." This recognition is awarded to only 16% of the nation's 15,573 public school districts.


"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis


This diary and the fact that my son (2.00 / 2)
was working with my grandson just before dinner led to an interesting dinner conversation. I thought I would pass on a couple of things that came up in that conversation.

It was pointed out that students learn at different paces, yet we throw them together based on age. Why is that? Shouldn't it be based on what they've already learned? As it is now, you have some students sitting in a class that is over their heads and others who are bored with the repetition of things they understood the first time they saw it. Why can't fast-learning 12 year-olds share a class with slow-learning 14 year-olds?

Why are our grades based on age instead of learning level?

Another thing that was discussed is the fact that this school district (see my comment above) has multiple programs to keep kids from falling through the cracks. That helps to explain their excellent graduation rates. Why aren't these programs expanded upon and spread nationally? Shouldn't we take programs that work and spread them everywhere? Seems to make sense to me.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis


Important issues and interesting (0.00 / 0)
ideas.

Ungraded classes have been tried in many districts for many years.  My student teaching year, which was 1966, I was placed in a school that was doing "ungraded".  In essence,in some schools ungraded became a euphemism for "tracking by ability".  It was challenged because it ended up going back to the old days of placement based on social class, race, ethnicity, etc.
Here is an article that discusses this:

http://www.edweek.org/rc/issue...

Still in some schools, age placement is ignored in place of skills placement.  Some schools, then have the pre k, kindergarten, pre first and then first.  Early on these have no significant issues socially.

As kids get older it is a problem.  Special needs students, now mainstreamed into regular ed could be problematic.  For example I have had students in sixth grade whose reading and math skills were on the first grade level.  But to put those students on that level would be inappropriate in so many ways.  One year, I did have a special needs 14 year old in my sixth grade.  It was a real distraction. His size and language use (his peers from the streets used totally inappropriate language and he did not have the skills to limit it to the streets) really made classroom management an issue.  Having a student shout out F*&^ the cops because he knows it will get him a laugh intefered with teaching and learning (and for the record he had a one on one aid but that did not solve the problem).

In the case of "Doogie Houser" types, I don't know what the research says.  I know in middle school, age appropriate placement is often as important as ability.  Adolescents are a difficult group on all levels, academically, emotionally, socially.

In my own personal view, I think students developmental stages should be taken into consideration.  But the problem is this:  how do we account for the late bloomers who go into speed growth later on. For example some slow starters bloom, catch up and exceed, within a two year time frame...do we hold them back just to speed them up?

I sincerely believe accommodations can and are made best within the classroom of students within a normal age range.  And these accommodations are achieved much more readily when class sizes are small, when materials are readily available.  In some schools they do it with a combo approach. For example the fourth and fifth grade teachers work together and group for ability/progress/skills sets for math and reading/writing while they group in "homerooms regardless of skills for art, social studies, science."

As for programs that catch problem students, a big issue is how heavily a school is impacted coupled with its funding (based on tax rates).  An affluent school can cover other needs (paper, pencils, materials) with parent help and fund raisers while other schools have to cover it with monies the school gets.  For example, schools have some discretionary funds.  So in an affluent school the staff can decide to spend that money on an art program, maybe a potter and a potter's wheel for a grade level.  Maybe a group of the students who are academically frustrated soar in this art....and it is the turn around.  In a poor school, that "discretionary money" is used to buy dictionaries...

It's a complicated process.....


"It's a complicated process....." (0.00 / 0)
That it is. I can see what you are saying about ungraded classes. I went to a religious school through the 8th grade. We only had 4 classrooms for 8 grades. Each teacher taught 2 grades. This was a great advantage for someone like me because as soon as I was done with my lower grade work I could learn from the lesson being taught to the higher grade. Of course, this worked against me when I was in the higher grade. Then I had time on my hands. I used that time to do the homework so I seldom had to do any at home.

Money isn't the only issue. Of course you know that. However, while the Grand Blanc schools are very well-funded, the Detroit schools are also well-funded. Unfortunately, a lot of the money in the Detroit school system seems to disappear. What isn't siphoned off into someone's pocket often ends up being wasted. The state pours tons of money into the Detroit schools and yet they seem to go downhill more and more every year. What the heck can we do about that?

One of the things that troubles me is the drop-out culture we seem to have drifted into. Inner city kids and poor kids have somehow been taught to undervalue education. These are the kids that most need the advantages that education can bring. We must do something to change this attitude.

Another thing that bothers me is the one-size-fits-all mentality of education reform. School districts like the one I'm in don't need help or reform. It's the districts that are failing to educate their students that need to be the focus of any reforms. NCLB does nothing for districts like this one, other than to put more complexity into a system that already works for the students.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis


[ Parent ]
Here you hit the nail on the head... (0.00 / 0)
Another thing that bothers me is the one-size-fits-all mentality of education reform

This is the problem with state testing, and now, I fear national testing.   Now we can do the tests to see some trends but that is the only basis.  

Why in heaven's name would the kids in inner city Detroit have the same needs, goals, as the kids in an affluent suburb.  They can but do they have to?  That's the problem.

It is one of the reasons I think we need Commitment Pay, get the best and the brightest in large numbers to commit to urban teaching.  

As far as the disappearing money, it's hard to say.  Seriously, a school heavily impacted with learning disabled students, students that started out behind due to poverty, to neglect, to language barriers, simply need more staff.  And materials.  Kids from affluent homes have access to the Internet, to cars, to the arts, to vacations, to meeting diverse people from all over the world.  They get healthier food and health care is a given.  
In the poorest schools, it is amazing to see the obesity problems.  Mac and cheese and all processed foods are cheaper than fresh fruits and vegetables.  In violent neighborhoods, mom keep their young kids inside, fearing for their safety ...or getting lulled into gang life.  So the only exercise they get is at school and we have cut our the recesses so they can do better on tests for reading and writing.  

And the tests can be meaningless.  One year the writing prompt for one grade level was this: You wake up, turn on the lights, and nothing. Turn on the television, nothing happens.  What is going on.  What has happened.

In many schools the stories of alien invasions, vengeful skunks or squirrels were rated high and creative. Spies from an invading country.  
But a good chunk of our kids at our school wrote a short, to the point piece.  Mom did not have any money to pay the electric bill. So she got some money from grandma and paid and we got our lights on.

Now, how do you think the scores went?
Kids write what they know.  Sometimes the world of inner city kids, poor kids is limited by geography, by lack of resources to get in touch with the world.

NCLB, imo, hurt poor schools badly and sent many teachers scurrying looking for jobs in other schools.  You can only get beat up and told you are failing so many times before you too give up.

Want to take a guess to  


[ Parent ]
Great diary, Jjc2008 (2.00 / 3)
Personally, I don't think the problem is really on the teaching end, in the sense that a kid who wants to learn, can learn. If teaching were the problem, a motivated student wouldn't have the tools to learn, and even in urban schools I have not found that to be the case.

I think the greater problem is that academics are fairly low on the priorities of many students. Our society isn't doing a great job communicating the why of learning. Minus sufficient motivation, how effectively can you cram knowledge into someone under duress? We are essentially throwing knowledge at our children and hoping that it sticks, despite the child's best efforts at avoiding this knowledge.

I remember being a teen, hanging out on a corner with my peers, late into the night. We all had hopes and dreams and aspirations, but they were focused on dating this girl or that, performing well in a football or b-ball game, showing we were tough, and strong, and cool. Certainly at the time, academic studies were simply a burden to be navigated as efficiently as possible, they didn't intersect our lives in any way that could be considered meaningful. I was an A student at my school, and the fastest on my track team - none of my peers ever mentioned my test scores in any context but rueful jocularity. They were quite proud of my speed. Speed was cool, sociology was not.

How about, instead of merit pay, we start spending money on public relations and marketing? 2 or 3 times a year, bring in a motivational speaker. I'm not talking the head of the local Kiwanis club, I mean a Tony Robbins or Zig Zigler type - men who are paid to highly motivate adults. Sell the kids on the idea of education, get them hungry for it. Set up a county lottery for test scores, an A is 4 entries, a B is 3 entries and so on.

We've become focused on producing better teachers, but I'm not sure we've addressed how to make better learners, which is actually our goal.


I like this idea. (0.00 / 0)
I like it a lot. Let's start a marketing campaign in this country. Put a significant amount in the Education budget to do it. Hire the top ad agencies and get Spielberg, Lucas, and other top directors to create the commercials. There are so many successful and famous people that would contribute their time and names for this. Invite Cosby, Hanks, Fifty Cent, Eminem, Spike Lee, Queen Latifa (love that woman), Oprah, Bill Gates, ... Make being involved in the campaign the 'in' thing to do in Hollywood circles. Make it a personal invitation from Barack Obama. Think of it as the Just Say Yes campaign. Yes to education. Yes to having a future. Yes. Yes. Yes.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis


[ Parent ]
Thank you for this diary. (2.00 / 1)
My mother has worked in the public education system for coming on 30 years now -- briefly as a high school English teacher, a lengthy period as a junior high gifted teacher, and subsequently (and currently) as an elementary school gifted teacher. I agree with you wholeheartedly, as would she.

It's always such a treat to read a quality diary on education, especially when personal perspectives are involved.

I wish I had more time to linger in this thread and discuss possible solutions and different ways of looking at these issues. As it is, I feel I am a bit stuck in my beliefs and stand staunchly against merit pay.

(And have I ever mentioned my deep seated hatred of NCLB? Oh yeah... at length.)

Thank you again for writing this. You are calling attention to issues which are often forgotten by the MSM.

"I now am bold to say to the swift changing hours,
Pass, pass upon your way, for I grow never old,
Fleet to the dark abysm with all your fading flowers,
One rose that none may pluck, within my heart I hold."


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