Freedom of Speech? Only if you're a religious nutcase apparently

by: LabWitch

Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 15:17:13 PM EST



apparently, to the very religious, freedom of speech works, but only in one direction.  They have the right to speechify to YOU, you do NOT have the right to reply.    this has become a fundamental problem in the dialogue between the fundamentalist religionists and those of us who are free from religion.
LabWitch :: Freedom of Speech? Only if you're a religious nutcase apparently
FULL DISCLOSURE:  i am a scientist, i do not believe in a god, any god.    you may believe, and that's just fine with me, i respect that.  all i ask is that you respect my right to disbelieve.  not trying to start a pie fight or disrespect anyone's religious beliefs, just pointing up the fact that some believers do not respect anyone else's rights.  to these people, it's god's will that they thrust their views in my face, but i am not allowed to disagree.  well, here are some professors, one at UCLA and one at Penn State who took their own action.  sorry the videos aren't very good, but listen to the words.    warning:  the word M'f***er is used in one of the videos.  here we go:  

the videos won't embed using either the old or the new code so, i'm just putting in the links.  if nothing else these are funny as hell!

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asking for moderation (2.00 / 9)
as i understand that embeding these links may be a no no, at least it was in the other place.  also, if a moderator thinks this is inappropriate, please delete it for me.  thank you.

Does the morgue wagon come with the job?

Look in the upper right-hand side, Labby (2.00 / 9)
See that "request moderation" button? Poke that and see what happens. :)

Also, to mods: Labby is taking my uneducated word for it that autostarting links are frowned upon. Would someone with more sense than me weigh in?

"Do your little bit of good where you are; it is those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world." ~ Desmond Tutu


[ Parent ]
In a nod to accepted norms, (2.00 / 10)
we keep "swear words" out of diary titles.

That's about as far as we go towards censorship.

Sometimes when you embed in a diary or comment the video doesn't show until you reload. Embedded.

John Askren - "Never get into a pissing match with a skunk."


[ Parent ]
I think there is some kind of (2.00 / 11)
problem with Chrome. While using Chrome, I tested LabWitch's clips in a separate diary, and reloading didn't help. Changing the embed info didn't help. Nothing helped. I couldn't get the videos to show up. Yet, when I checked another diary with almost IDENTICAL embed code... those vids showed up. NONE of this was a problem when I tested in other browsers (Firefox, Safari) -- everything showed up normally every time.

I had a problem getting clips to embed in the Hillary diary I wrote the other day too, so I just scrapped them due to impatience. I have taken to using Chrome of late (though Firefox is my preferred browser) because it runs so much faster on my old, crappy computer.

I'm not sure what could be going on, but it's definitely frustrating. I have always been one to use a lot of clips.

Come to me in my dreams, and then
By day I shall be well again!
For so the night will more than pay
The hopeless longing of the day.


[ Parent ]
I use Chrome and only have to do the reload thing when I post. (2.00 / 8)
The problem is likely the usual computer error. You're just holding the mouse wrong.

;~)

John Askren - "Never get into a pissing match with a skunk."


[ Parent ]
i use chrome too (2.00 / 8)
maybe i just need to tweak it somewhat.  i'll try in another diary another time.  thank you all for your help and your understanding to the newbie!

Does the morgue wagon come with the job?

[ Parent ]
Oh, no...now you've done it Blask... (2.00 / 9)
That's about as far as we go towards censorship.

Here come the PornHub clips from Space and Fog!

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Really, though, so long as content/commentary abide by the Posting Guidelines, we are not much fussed by salty language.

And, sadly, no....PornHub clips are not acceptable on the Moose (even the really good ones).

/grin

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[ Parent ]
nutcase is a swear word? LOL (2.00 / 7)
i did put a warning about a swear word in the body of the diary just so anyone who might be offended can make a conscious decision about watching it.  i'll remember not to put swear words in the titles of any diary i write, not that it would occur to me to do so, i do have some couth, sometimes.  :-)

Does the morgue wagon come with the job?

[ Parent ]
No, (2.00 / 8)
though we did just have a conversation about that set of words in sricki's diary about stigma. I am still processing that, it's hard to express opinions about some people without referencing being fucking goofy.

Mickey Mouse is having a nasty divorce with Minnie Mouse. Mickey spoke to the judge about the separation.

"I'm sorry Mickey, but I can't legally separate you two on the grounds that Minnie is mentally insane."

Mickey replied, "I didn't say she was mentally insane, I said that she's fucking Goofy!"

I don't know what swear words are, honestly. The accepted set include words we say in front of our children all the time, and they don't seem to be growing up all grotty and mutated.

There are one or two we never use which aren't on the "swear word" list afaik.

George Carlin said it best:

There are no bad words.

There are bad thoughts. There are bad intentions.

And then there are words.



John Askren - "Never get into a pissing match with a skunk."

[ Parent ]
nutcase can be a dirty word (2.00 / 7)
it all depends on the phrasing.

;0


[ Parent ]
Damn , i thought i knew you! NT (2.00 / 6)


"COUNTY OFFICIALS TO TALK RUBBISH"- from 'Anguished English'

[ Parent ]
i did that (2.00 / 8)
and i replied to the mod ticket with an explanation of why moderation was requested.  it's up to the MM's now.  no problem.  they can ignore it, they can delete it, they can laugh at it or whatever.  i just liked the humor of it all.  

Does the morgue wagon come with the job?

I don't see anything wrong with the links... (2.00 / 8)
and the content is fine so long as any ensuing discussion remains civil.

I agree that autostarting video is maddening...no matter the source or site being posted on.

I don't understand, though, why a youtube vid would autostart?

Is that some youtube embed option I am unaware of?

I have to double-click everything to watch a vid on my computer because I run flashblock, or else I would test the embeds for you.

What I DO understand is the frustration with the intolerance of SOME of the faithful (and, tbh, of the faithless as well).

So long as it does no harm to others (and preferably no harm to yourself)...I am all about "believe what you want to believe".
(universal 'you')


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[ Parent ]
Fucking weather.com (2.00 / 8)
every page, a video starts playing. WTF are they thinking?

John Askren - "Never get into a pissing match with a skunk."

[ Parent ]
I hear ya... (2.00 / 8)
I don't like outside forces deciding what I am listening to (especially if what I am listening to is the person on the other end of the phone when all of a sudden some random nonsense is blasting from my computer).

I don't see the practice as any better than the old school blaring pop-up advert windows (I guess they may still exist for some, I run No-Script and Flash block and pop-up blocker...so, they don't exist for ME).

I can't imagine that anyone appreciates the auto-run...no matter what site it is on.

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[ Parent ]
That video stuff on weather.com drives me nuts too. Also, there (2.00 / 4)
is a bit of annoying noise (not exactly music) that plays just before the videos.  Now I only watch with the Macs sound muted.

"I base most of my fashion sense on whether or not it itches"  -- Gilda Radner

[ Parent ]
LabWitch, (2.00 / 9)
I'm trying to figure out what could be going on with YouTube. I'm getting some weird results with vids myself, which is odd for me.

What browser are you using?

Come to me in my dreams, and then
By day I shall be well again!
For so the night will more than pay
The hopeless longing of the day.


[ Parent ]
thank you Kysen. (2.00 / 7)
just thought it might be wise to get a ruling on this.  the videos don't start automatically for me, and none of the FAQ embed directions worked so ...  

thank you for the time you took to look into it.

everyone has their right to believe what they like, i will respect those beliefs.  no one has the right to shove their beliefs down anyone else's throat.  harsh?  maybe, but, i tend to push back.  nicely at first.

Does the morgue wagon come with the job?


Well, is not a ruling...just my opinion... (2.00 / 6)
but, I can't recall any auto-run clips on Moose (at least no in recent memory). 'I' just find them supremely annoying when I encounter them elsewhere.

If someone else takes a look who has more tech know-how than I do and figures out a way to embed them, I am sure they will.

But ya...believe or disbelieve as you wish...just don't, as you say, shove it down my throat.  /grin


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[ Parent ]
thanks Kysen :-p (just a little twisted humor) n/t (2.00 / 7)


Does the morgue wagon come with the job?

Ha! LabWitch is the closest 'lectronic & phone friend I've ever had - and (2.00 / 9)
she knows I'm a sommewhat confused and quiet believer. Also someone who is offended by badgering by religious zealots - i've lived all but a couple of years of my life in Alabama , those in about 1981 to 1983. THose folks are unescapable here. But , ya know , LabWitch and I have completely civil discourse over the phone and  intertubes even with this , ehh , fundamental difference.And ABOUT the general subject of religion , with neither of us getting the least bit offended even wwhen teasing one another about it.Not sure what I'm trying to say here , 'cept I thought the video was funny , illustrative of a nasty form of social badgering , and  also illustrative of the fact that lines drawn between science and religion just ain't necessary if folks keep their universe in perspective. It's mostly mystery , and we are not gonna understand much of it. (and I didn't go to church today , but cruised the dating websites , tra - la - la!)  

"COUNTY OFFICIALS TO TALK RUBBISH"- from 'Anguished English'

abra is absolutely correct in that we can discuss (2.00 / 8)
pretty much anything with sensitivity and humor.  no offense taken and none meant.  just honest discourse.  makes us both think about the other's point of view and isn't that really what we all should be doing?  trying to understand each other without necessarily agreeing with everything?  isn't that how growth works?  isn't that how intelligence strives to become more intelligent?

of course, abra and i have talked of shoes and ships and sailing ships and cabbages and kings and sexuality and dating and marriage and divorce and god and the absence or presence of god, of science and literature.  sometimes our conversations take tangents that no one else could possibly follow and that's a great gift to each other!  

thank you my brother!

Does the morgue wagon come with the job?


[ Parent ]
We also whine about nasty weather and achey joints to one another. (2.00 / 7)
WE're just , you  know , toward one anoter like we all s'pose to be.

"COUNTY OFFICIALS TO TALK RUBBISH"- from 'Anguished English'

[ Parent ]
You two with your organ recitals. :P (2.00 / 7)


[ Parent ]
Post is a slow happening thing , but hey , those that do get there are so (2.00 / 5)
more likely to be enjoyable than , errmm , ehh , gaahh , ick ,donchaknow. It wil be nice when I've settled down to the point where every tie I feel great about this site i don't have the urge to reference it to , ahh , glurp , meh , and uuuggghhhh.

"COUNTY OFFICIALS TO TALK RUBBISH"- from 'Anguished English'

[ Parent ]
As a former deeply devout Christian and current (2.00 / 10)
complete non-theist, I know what you mean.

As a Christian my freedom of speech was a treasure I understood. I learned very early that this has not been something I knew had not always been guaranteed.

As a non-theist ("atheist" is so consistently misunderstood I don't use the word), I have gone around the block on the issue. At first, and still fundamentally, I focused on respecting other people's beliefs. But at a certain point I came to realize that I was not being as equally honest as theists were to me.

So now I speak honestly.

I don't believe in theisms, of any sort. Religions are quite clearly man-made attempts to understand the universe from a position of ignorance. True, within theisms are many valuable moral lessons and structures to living, but also they come with a requirement to believe things which are infinitely unlikely. They are in almost all cases mutually exclusive, requiring believers to think less of the majority of humanity who do not share their theism.

This doesn't make anyone a bad person for believing in one, any more than I am a bad person for not doing so. Inasmuch as people find strength in one without thereby causing pain in someone else a theism can be a net good thing.

Attempts by anyone to force me or another person to listen to their theistic beliefs are in fact tyranny, as much as my attempt to force anyone not to would be.

John Askren - "Never get into a pissing match with a skunk."


just the point i was trying to make (2.00 / 7)
if you really watch the videos, no one comes off as being really good in them.  both the profs and the preachers really look rather silly although the profs at least have some understanding of the give and take of free speech while the ranters do not.  also, the students seem to be on the profs' side, then again, they may be students of these men and protecting their grades.  oooh, that was rather cynical wasn't it?  

basically, my point is, respect my beliefs or my right to not believe and i'll respect your right to believe or not as is your wont.  i truly think that the professors were trying to make that point too, in rather rather strident ways granted.

Does the morgue wagon come with the job?


[ Parent ]
Well said Chris. eom (2.00 / 3)


"I base most of my fashion sense on whether or not it itches"  -- Gilda Radner

[ Parent ]
a huge thank you (2.00 / 8)
to the mod that fixed those links and embedded the vids.  Mwah!  :-)

Does the morgue wagon come with the job?

nutbag maybe. but nutcase? (2.00 / 4)
wouldn't a case make things, um difficult? briefcase? jewelry case? boy, we gotta lotta bad words there.  :-D

Does the morgue wagon come with the job?

One of the problems, as I see it... (2.00 / 3)
...is that too many people, believers and non-believers alike, are too defensive and too quick to take offense. (I do NOT get that feeling from you, Labby.) When walls are up, real mutual understanding is impossible.

Thanks for the diary!

There are, in every age, new errors to be rectified, and new prejudices to be opposed. ~Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)


The easy litmus is if you feel the need to put "militant" in your description. (2.00 / 3)
Of yourself, or of someone else.

I understand militant theism. As a Christian I thought the value of convincing someone of The Truth was worth any cost. Pissing off a bunch of non-believers and trampling on their man-made "rights" was nothing compared to saving one soul from literally burning for eternity.

Therein lies the problem.

For a geek enthusiast like me, theism leads directly to extremism. At the end of the day it doesn't matter how many are hurt if one is saved.

I understand jihadists - completely.

The only thing that saves the rest of us from constant persecution by theists is that most religious people just don't take religion very seriously. For me, having The Manual in my hand which was literally written by The Creator dictated that I follow every single word (what choice did I have?).

While I was terrified of losing my religion - imagining a hopeless wasteland outside - I eventually found a deep liberation and ability to find incredible meaning in the universe without it.

John Askren - "Never get into a pissing match with a skunk."


[ Parent ]
I only have one small nit to pick :-) (2.00 / 3)
You say:

The only thing that saves the rest of us from constant persecution by theists is that most religious people just don't take religion very seriously.

In my opinion we'd all be better off if they DID take their religion very seriously, with the focus on living it rather than trying to enforce it upon others.

Apart from that, I nod repeatedly in agreement. :-D

There are, in every age, new errors to be rectified, and new prejudices to be opposed. ~Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)


[ Parent ]
"literally" might be a better phrase, (2.00 / 3)
and "militant atheist" is also an ugly phrase.

The problem I have with theism is that the logical state is to be literalist. If it truly is the word of the creator there really isn't any other way to take it. If it isn't, then what are we believing in, anyway?

Fortunately, though, most folks just don't take it that seriously/literally. If everyone was like me theism could only lead to constant warfare.

John Askren - "Never get into a pissing match with a skunk."


[ Parent ]
There you go... (2.00 / 3)
...trying to put logic into something that is, by definition, illogical, LOL!

Personally, I prefer my metaphysics to be metaphorical. Much saner that way. ;-)

There are, in every age, new errors to be rectified, and new prejudices to be opposed. ~Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)


[ Parent ]
thank you for the kind words slksfca. (2.00 / 3)
i don't take offense to others' beliefs.  people can believe what they like, problem is, that some believers take offense at my non-belief and therein lies that problem.  i try to keep conversations about that to a minimum and when possible avoid them all together.  

my son found these on reddit (no it's not redstate, it's a geek forum similar to 4 chan, only in english)  lots of interesting stuff there, and fun stuff too.

if you visit reddit, be aware, they are much into the smoking of the weed in parts of the forum so if that is offensive, just stay away from those areas.  there are political forums, both liberal and some conservative.  good animal forums, they love animals and lots of fun pix of all sorts.  links to good stuff on youtube.  take a tour, most of the posters are rather younger, but there's some that are "old hippies" like myself.  although i was too young to be a hippie (believe that?) :-p

Does the morgue wagon come with the job?


[ Parent ]
Yes, I've explored parts of reddit. (2.00 / 3)
Lots of interesting stuff there, as you say - but I never felt like I really fit in.

As for hippies and age, it's all in the mind, right? ;-)

There are, in every age, new errors to be rectified, and new prejudices to be opposed. ~Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)


[ Parent ]
i don't fit in there really (2.00 / 2)
i just poke around, never comment.  my son is the redditor, he sends me this stuff.  

Does the morgue wagon come with the job?

[ Parent ]
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